log013000

Session Start: Sun Jan 30 20:43:54 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ "Focusing Forward" 2,7Spiritual 2,8Discussion 2,9Tonight 2,11January 30 0,12at 9pm 2,13EST ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

*** kristinos (ADCjava@***.127.mpoweredpc.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** crank001 (ADCjava@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** Nixie (Nurse@***.tstonramp.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** Dot (ADCjava@***.coast.nlc.net.au) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** susann (ADCjava@***.chs.bellsouth.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** RevRandybrb is now known as RevRandy
RevRandy. . . . .hello to everyone
*** Elissabrb is now known as Elissa
Elissa. . . . .hi everyone!
*** common (ADCjava@***.splitrock.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** TF88 (TF88@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** mrsjkt (ADCjava@***.frndl1.wa.home.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .lots of new people here! welcome all!
Elissa. . . . .((((((TF))))))
TF88. . . . .{{{{{E and R}}}}}
RevRandy. . . . .hey TF
*** Pinky (ADCjava@***.ns.sympatico.ca) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** hallie (madyruth@***.mfx.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .hi zuzu
RevRandy. . . . .welcome hallie
Zuzu. . . . .hi Elissa
*** Janie (babe@***.telepath.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
crank001. . . . .zuzu i dont see you
Elissa. . . . .hey janie-kins!
Zuzu. . . . .I'm at bottom, crank
RevRandy. . . . .hello janie (or I first typed jello hanie)
Elissa. . . . .don't sit on zuzu
Zuzu. . . . .lol
Janie. . . . .hehehe RevRandy
Janie. . . . .jello Rev
Elissa. . . . .jello lol
RevRandy. . . . .jello everyone
Janie. . . . .jello E!
TF88. . . . .stop wiggling E!
Elissa. . . . .i prefer ice cream, thanks
Elissa. . . . .hahahaha
RevRandy. . . . .there's always room for....
Pinky. . . . .hehehe
Elissa. . . . .i'm glad to see so many new faces... and old faces
* Janie 's isn't that old...lol
RevRandy. . . . .time (and therefore age) is irrelevant
*** sharross (sharross@***.tnt6.hackensack.nj.da.uu.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
TF88. . . . .{{{sharross}}}
RevRandy. . . . .hello sharross
*** Deb (longjw@***.gso.bellsouth.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
sharross. . . . .HI Rev
RevRandy. . . . .and hello deb
TF88. . . . .hi Deb!
*** Evee (evas@***.citlink.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .((((((deb))))))
Deb. . . . .Hi Rev, Pinky, TF, Elissa
Elissa. . . . .and ((((((sharr))))))
sharross. . . . .HI TF- thanks for the hugs
Elissa. . . . .hanna's coming hanna's coming
sharross. . . . .Hey {{{{{Elissa}}}}}
*** Hanna (Hanna@***.on.bellglobal.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .and here she is!
Deb. . . . .Lock the door!!
Elissa. . . . .((((((hanna))))))
Deb. . . . .Oops to late :)
Hanna. . . . .:)
Deb. . . . .Hi Hanna :)
Janie. . . . .;)
Elissa. . . . .lol deb
RevRandy. . . . .So, welcome to you all!!!!
Hanna. . . . .Hey everyone! :)
RevRandy. . . . .Welcome to SP
RevRandy. . . . .Our weekly gathering to think about issues of Spiritual Persistence
RevRandy. . . . .please - find a seat and sit down
crank001. . . . .sitting
Elissa. . . . .(but not on zuzu)
Zuzu. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .if there are none available, go next door and get one
kristinos. . . . .-----------} in corner comfortably listening
RevRandy. . . . .I take it we have some newcomers to SP here tonight. Yes?
Evee. . . . .yes......:)
Dot. . . . .yes
kristinos. . . . .yes =)
RevRandy. . . . .Welcome!
hallie. . . . .yes
Dot. . . . .thank you
Pinky. . . . .yes
crank001. . . . .yess,,,,,,,,
Evee. . . . .thank you RevRandy
susann. . . . .yes
*** zee (bayridge1@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .Well, to help you know what is going on ,. Elissa has an intro
Elissa. . . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa. . . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa. . . . .Williamsburg, VA.
Elissa. . . . .I am a writer, medium, and published poet, and
Elissa. . . . .am currently a Masters candidate in Community Counseling
Elissa. . . . .at the College of William and Mary.
*** LadyDi (ladydi2378@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa. . . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa. . . . .on August 20, 1995.
Elissa. . . . .She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa. . . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa. . . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa. . . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for that body of
Elissa. . . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa. . . . .Ponder.
Elissa. . . . .It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa. . . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa. . . . .and death, of connection, and of our place in the universe.
Elissa. . . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa. . . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives.
Elissa. . . . .We are here to
Elissa. . . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore what it means
Elissa. . . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this journey.
Elissa. . . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa. . . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa. . . . . or email Randy or me anytime. Thanks
Elissa. . . . .for coming...and again, welcome! Does anyone have any questions before we begin?
kristinos. . . . .no =)
Elissa. . . . .welcome kristinos
kristinos. . . . .ty
*** zzuuzz (ADCjava@***.lft.widomaker.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .now, no one can sit on zuzu
Pinky. . . . .no thank you
RevRandy. . . . .Before we begin, we offer a simple invocation
RevRandy. . . . .and ask that you join in the spirit of these words:
RevRandy. . . . .May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . .Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . .And guided in all ways gracious. Amen
Hanna. . . . .blessings to all
Elissa. . . . .amen~
TF88. . . . .amen
kristinos. . . . .amen
sharross. . . . .Amen
LadyDi. . . . .Amen
Nixie. . . . .amen
Deb. . . . .amen
susann. . . . .amen
Dot. . . . .amen
Evee. . . . .Amen
Pinky. . . . .amen
mrsjkt. . . . .Amen
crank001. . . . .amen
Janie. . . . .Åmen
*** bluelight (starlite@***.sedona.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .Tonight we have a little different format -
RevRandy. . . . .we are going to begin with an exercise (given us today by Rikkity)
RevRandy. . . . .and after we complete the exercise, we will consider a point to ponder she gave us earlier this week
RevRandy. . . . .and still later we have more from today
RevRandy. . . . .so, ready???
Elissa. . . . .((((((blue))))))
kristinos. . . . .yup
Pinky. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .you'll need something to write on and with
kristinos. . . . .ok
RevRandy. . . . .here's the exercise
bluelight. . . . .{{{{LISSA}}}}RRandy}}}}
RevRandy. . . . .make a list of the important things you've done in the last 48 hours
RevRandy. . . . .you get to decide what is important ....
RevRandy. . . . .we will give you about 10 minutes to do this ...
RevRandy. . . . .and ask that when you have finished, just type in a dot (.) after your name, so we know you are ready
RevRandy. . . . .and please, no talking while others are trying to concentrate
RevRandy. . . . .any questions about this?
RevRandy. . . . .OK - start listing
crank001. . . . .(.)
kristinos. . . . .(.)
sharross. . . . ..
Dot. . . . .(.)
hallie. . . . ..
zee. . . . . .
Evee. . . . ..
susann. . . . ..
mrsjkt. . . . .(.)
Pinky. . . . ..
zzuuzz. . . . ..
Zuzu. . . . .Zuzu.
Deb. . . . ..
Hanna. . . . ..
TF88. . . . ..
RevRandy. . . . ..
LadyDi. . . . ..
Elissa. . . . ..
*** Alisa (ADCjava@***.tnt5.tacoma.wa.da.uu.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4WELCOME - we are in the middle of a test, a quiz, an exercise.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4People are writing down the important things they've done in the last 48 hours.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Join in. We are giving people until 9:30 ET to complete their lists.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4When people are done, they are going to put a dot (.) by their names, so we know they are ready.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Please no conversations while we are all working on this.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4(shhhh - I heard that!)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Thanks.
Janie. . . . ..
zee. . . . ..
RevRandy. . . . .(I just realized that this could be an infinite process --- first you make the list, then making the list goes on the list, then adding making the list goes on the list, etc,. etc.
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .but anyway ....
Janie. . . . .huh?
RevRandy. . . . .now, you have your list
RevRandy. . . . .yes? YES!
TF88. . . . .yes
RevRandy. . . . .now comes the harder part
crank001. . . . .yes
RevRandy. . . . .take a look at your list
crank001. . . . .k
RevRandy. . . . .and being honest (Rikkity told us to mention that)
RevRandy. . . . .determine which ones have to do with "then" - (i.e., the past)
RevRandy. . . . .which ones have to do with "now" (i.e., present)
RevRandy. . . . .which ones have to do with "then" (i.e. the future)
RevRandy. . . . .we'll give you a couple of minutes to do that
crank001. . . . .how do i place god?
RevRandy. . . . .who was, is and everymore shall be ....hmmmmm
Janie. . . . .#1
Nixie. . . . .;)
TF88. . . . .some things can fit into all 3 categories
crank001. . . . .not an answer
zee. . . . .now
crank001. . . . .k
*** FamilyLDR (ADCjava@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .is yours a God of the past, the present, or the future?
crank001. . . . .present
zzuuzz. . . . ..
crank001. . . . ..
mrsjkt. . . . ..
Pinky. . . . ..
TF88. . . . ..
susann. . . . .(.)
Zuzu. . . . .Zuzu.
Deb. . . . ..
Evee. . . . ..
RevRandy. . . . ..
Alisa. . . . ..
sharross. . . . ..
*** Sharon (sdobbins1@***.we.mediaone.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4WELCOME - we are in the middle of process -
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4people compiled a list of the important things they've done in the last 48 hours.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Now they are (honestly we hope) rating them as to which belong to
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4"then" (i.e., the past)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4"now" (i.e., present)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4"then" (i.e., the future)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Join in the process. We are giving people until 9:35 ET to complete their rating.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4When people are done, they are going to put a dot (.) by their names, so we know they are ready.
Dot. . . . .(.)
crank001. . . . .(.)
hallie. . . . .(.)
zee. . . . ..
Hanna. . . . ..
RevRandy. . . . .one minute warning
FamilyLDR. . . . ..
*** babylove (ADCjava@***.ocean.eticomm.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
* Janie is not sure what she is supposed to be doing
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4WELCOME - we are in the middle of process -
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4people compiled a list of the important things they've done in the last 48 hours.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Now they are (honestly we hope) rating them as to which belong to
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4"then" (i.e., the past)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4"now" (i.e., present)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4"then" (i.e., the future)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Join in the process. We are giving people until 9:35 ET to complete their rating.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4When people are done, they are going to put a dot (.) by their names, so we know they are ready.
Janie. . . . .I will just watch
* FamilyLDR will too
Elissa. . . . .ok janie... you can try it by yourself later if you want... actually this is something everyone can do on their own whenever they want to check what direction they're heading in
Janie. . . . .Thanks E
RevRandy. . . . .ok - folks - time to look at how you ranked your important activities of the last 48 hours
RevRandy. . . . .were there more things dealing with the past, the present, or the future?
RevRandy. . . . .what pattern did you see in your ratings?
RevRandy. . . . .and consider these questions from Rikkity:
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4And what does this seem to say to you?
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4How does it feel ?
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Is it constructive, constrictive destructive?
RevRandy. . . . .any responses?
TF88. . . . .respond here in the room?
Elissa. . . . .you don't have to... only if you want to
RevRandy. . . . .if you wish - but of course, you only share what you want to
Hanna. . . . .rather confusing a bit, but it sure gives you an idea of where you're spending your energy.
Elissa. . . . .we're not used to thinking that way are we
Hanna. . . . .no, we don't normally think about what we're thinking about. lol
Elissa. . . . .or doing lol
RevRandy. . . . .I found, of the 6 important things I did, 4 were future oriented, 1 past, and 1 present
zzuuzz. . . . .I was almost totally in the past
TF88. . . . .this helped me see more clearly what I actually did accomplish...I thought I was goofing off a lot, but when writing things down, I see I did a lot, all future oriented.
RevRandy. . . . .you - goofing off -
TF88. . . . .LOL
sharross. . . . .mostly future oriented here and some present
Elissa. . . . .i was surprised actually... i had more in the future than i thought i would
RevRandy. . . . .and to repeat Rikkity's questions
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4And what does this seem to say to you?
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4How does it feel ?
RevRandy. . . . . 2,4Is it constructive, constrictive, destructive?
zzuuzz. . . . .I found this to be constructive, but my life seems so constrictive
RevRandy. . . . .how so?
Elissa. . . . .((((((zzuuzz))))))
zzuuzz. . . . .I didn't realize how much I was caught up by the past
*** Gibnick (ADCjava@***.on.bellglobal.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .anyone else find themselves mainly in the past?
RevRandy. . . . .or any other thoughts about the exercise and what it meant to you?
Dot. . . . .most of mine relate to my garden the flowers will grow in the future but i planted them for my son who is passed
LadyDi. . . . . no RevRandy all 3 of mine are present and it made me feel Thankful maybe a bit constructive too
RevRandy. . . . .Dot - what a wonderful, transition sense
Gibnick. . . . .yes
mrsjkt. . . . .No, I can say that @90 days of grief, the last 48 hrs I have tried to get up again and feel better
RevRandy. . . . .good for you mrsjkt
RevRandy. . . . .and has it worked?
*** Grace (ADCjava@***.youu-net.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
mrsjkt. . . . .I go a minute @ a time so far so good...
RevRandy. . . . .good - a minute at a time is all you have to do
RevRandy. . . . .Well, let me then share some of the Point to Ponder we were given earlier this week:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Ok. Serious time, and I'm going to make some people mad at me.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2I'm going to speak my mind, ha. So there.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Viable organisms... ta-da... don't just deal with the present.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Re-creation and procreation are all about looking forward.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2If you aren't focused forward you are part of the past... and here comes the sticky part:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Those who try to live in the present are part of the past.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Don't glorify the present. Don't make it an icon over and against thinking ahead.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2So often the mellow people dislike and disclaim those who think about what will happen,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2but those with an eye on the future get to shape it; and living in the eternal Now doesn't.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Now is only valuable as a starting place, not a stopping place.
Janie. . . . .:) Rev
FamilyLDR. . . . .hmmmmmm
*** Aileen (ADCjava@***.rangenet.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .This is a long PtoP and I want to stop here and think about this
RevRandy. . . . .Here she is saying that there is a naturalness about living into the future, not about being content in the moment
RevRandy. . . . .To use the Now as a stopping place thwarts the process of becoming
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"So when all those people who dream meet those who try to be only present, let the dreamers take heart;
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2for theirs are the winds of change, which are the only true movements of being.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2In fact, living in the moment is just a copout for trying to avoid the demands of the future.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2The great teachings about being aware were not about just being aware,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2but cleansing what had been so one can move into the future without contamination.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2The current fascination with the Now is just a way to cover fears of dealing with a future.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Ok, that should piss off a few.
FamilyLDR. . . . .LOL
Elissa. . . . .what i'm hearing is this: there's nothing wrong with being in the Now, but those who shape the future are focused that way. and stopping in the Now gets you stuck there.
Elissa. . . . .when you want to move forward you need to focus forward or that movement will not happen
TF88. . . . .but we must be fully aware in the present for the future to be shaped...just not stopped in the present
RevRandy. . . . .not use the present as a refuge
Elissa. . . . .yes tf
TF88. . . . .i wish she had worded it "it's HOW we live in the moment"
TF88. . . . .or I wouldn't be pissed off ;)
Hanna. . . . .lol
FamilyLDR. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .but wait, there's more!
Elissa. . . . .this is what i deal with in grief counseling all the time. people say they want to heal but all their energy goes into the past... i was there, too so i understand
RevRandy. . . . .it is like we are captured by the past, or the fear of losing the past
Janie. . . . .can't live in the past
Elissa. . . . .o yes you can... and many do
Janie. . . . .not a good thing...
Elissa. . . . .no, not constructive... but so hard to see how NOT to do that when all you want is contained in the past...
Gibnick. . . . .how can people not concentrate on the past when grieving. They feel if they give that up they are giving up on the memory of their loved one???
Janie. . . . .for some I am sure..
RevRandy. . . . .exactly
RevRandy. . . . .one is trapped with the feeling that moving on would be another loss
Janie. . . . .until they heal ...possibly
Elissa. . . . .that's it, gibnick... and i learned that one way to be able to let go is to be able to see a future that contains your loved one as well as a past
FamilyLDR. . . . .*S*
Dot. . . . .is it still living in the past by living out some of your lost ones dreams?
RevRandy. . . . .Dot, interesting question
RevRandy. . . . .again, that feels like a transition point, moving from what was to what is yet to be
Gibnick. . . . .You can move forward and still have an attachment to the past.
Dot. . . . .i plan to take my family on a ski trip its something my son dreamed of doing we wanted to go live that dream for him
RevRandy. . . . .and that is very different from only doing the things that he actually did
Elissa. . . . .that's what i mean dot! that's a wonderful way to move forward without feeling like you have to let it all go
Dot. . . . .yes i understand that
Evee. . . . .oh wow, that IS what I have been doing.....living in the past, and didn't realize it.....:(
Elissa. . . . .((((((evee)))))) you're not alone
Evee. . . . .hubby and i were separated, we are back together, but i keep thinking "what if it happens again" so how can i PLAN for the future if i am concerned about the past???
Evee. . . . .just let him put me back on HIS car insurance policy today, cause i had my own and didn't want to loose it again....LOL
Elissa. . . . .that's the fear talking... waiting for the other shoe to drop and not feeling safe... it's a very common reaction
FamilyLDR. . . . .Take that "What if" and be sure to make the most of "What is now"
RevRandy. . . . .let's hear the rest of what Rikkity had to say
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"In fact, those who spend time thinking through possible scenarios for the future are the closest to the field of their being.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2First-timers are clueless, but the next several layers focus on the past-- "Who do you think my great-grandmother was," etc., etc.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And in the middle of the process are the Now people, and in the more-ready-to-be-fulfilled-and-move-on is a renewed sense of future as important.
RevRandy. . . . .
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Remember the garbled reports about Jesus speaking of the future.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2He was there, mon. Talk of future times has always been seen as prophetic,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2but it is just a quality of being into the future--all ready to move on but with only a sense of this world for planning.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2That's it and that's all and that's enough.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Being open to the future here is a sign of openness.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2You expect maybe you die and POOF you get it all together.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2No way, Jose. It is a process over many lives of changing lives.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2A leeetle here and a leeetle more there and a scooch there and a quack quack here and a quack quack there,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2here a quack there a quack everywhere a quack quack... Moo.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2So ponder that.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Being too attached or focused on the Now, and where can you go from there but to Now--which is already past, bye-bye, ta-ta. But now I plan a hug." (1/25/2000)
Evee. . . . .thanks guys........i will........:)
RevRandy. . . . .so, there it all is .... to ponder - but I should warn you - she had more to say on this today ... which we will share after a break
RevRandy. . . . .let's take a short break - and be back for more about living in the past, present, and future ... with some important thoughts for those who lists were more in the past
RevRandy. . . . .be back for formal activities in about 8 minutes
*** joy (ADCjava@***.flash.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Hanna. . . . .*whew*.. lots to take in
Elissa. . . . .and a very important message for those who are grieving... i found it inspirational!
Elissa. . . . .(the one coming up after the break i mean)
*** RevRandy is now known as RevRandybrb
Elissa. . . . .(not that this wasn't LOL)
* Elissa ducking incoming spirit fire LOL
Hanna. . . . .lol
FamilyLDR. . . . .Trying to follow Rikkity is like trying to follow an elk through the buck brush.... LOL
FamilyLDR. . . . .You can hear her, know she's there, but just can't quite see her............LOL
Elissa. . . . .hahahahaha fam it's great to see you ventured out here into the wilderness :)
FamilyLDR. . . . .LOL
Elissa. . . . .hey alisa :)
Alisa. . . . .hello Elissa
Elissa. . . . .did you get to do the quiz?
Alisa. . . . .love this topic
Elissa. . . . .me too... but i love all the topics lol
Alisa. . . . .i jotted down a few things
Alisa. . . . .mostly now, and one future
*** RevRandybrb is now known as RevRandy
FamilyLDR. . . . .I got a bit confused, though I understand what she is saying.
FamilyLDR. . . . .I thought I'd read somewhere where she said that the destination was not what is important, but the journey.??
RevRandy. . . . .yep - but in which direction is the journey
Elissa. . . . .o yes, fam
-Hanna- 13,2 11 Hello and Welcome to #SpiritualPersistence! 13 Tonight we are gathering to discuss "Moving Forward", with our hosts, RevRandy and Elissa. Please take a seat and be courteous by keeping your comments and questions for our speakers until an appropriate time. If you have any questions, please private message Hanna.
TF88. . . . .if we focus exclusively on the future, when will we ever get to enjoy the now?
TF88. . . . .I'm talking about the now, before it becomes the past
Ricky. . . . .hello first time
Elissa. . . . .welcome ricky
TF88. . . . .the right now, this very second, living it fully...before it becomes the past
Ricky. . . . .what is topic please?
RevRandy. . . . .Our topic is about trying to live with a future orientation
RevRandy. . . . .OK TF, but is the now focused on the past (where you've come) or the future (where you are going?)
Alisa. . . . .that makes sense TF
FamilyLDR. . . . .for me, I'd say it was a bit of both.
.TF88. . . . .planning the future, but also focusing on what is actually happening right now this second.
FamilyLDR. . . . .I remember that past and look to not repeat certain events in the future........ sometimes avoiding the things that seem too familiar and painful.
FamilyLDR. . . . .Well shoot.......the game's over and I must go be social. Love and Light all.
*** FamilyLDR has quit IRC (QUIT: )
RevRandy. . . . .game - game - did I miss something (I must not be a real American)
*** Elissabrb is now known as Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .OK - let's go on with what we got from Rikkity
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Many of the living seem to prefer the past, and there are 2 reasons and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2both have to do with change. Those without a profound loss think it will
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2keep them at bay, and those living with profound loss think it will keep
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2them from losing the loved one forever.
RevRandy. . . . .I can relate to this one - right after she died I kept thinking that focusing on the past would somehow keep her from slipping further away
joy. . . . .I am living with a profound loss
Elissa. . . . .((((((joy))))))
joy. . . . .thanks I needed that
RevRandy. . . . .does this strike home for you?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Those who dwell on the Now are also trying to avoid the awesome and awful
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2reality of loss. ‘I won't think about then, I will focus on now and maybe
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2meaning will catch up to me.' But here's the clinker: While we are stuck
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2with the past or fixated with the present, our loved ones move on and they
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2are no longer past and they are no longer present. But in our futures they
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2hold meaning. That very place many fear going--the future where they think
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2the loved one has no place--is the very place the loved one is. For it is
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2there that our meaningful connections will be manifest again. So don't fear
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2the future. It is not a place and time of loss and separation. It is the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2time and place of connection.
RevRandy. . . . .any responses to this
Hanna. . . . .I like it... it make sense.
Hanna. . . . .But how do you hold onto the ethereal future while in the physical present?
*** jayetriplets (jaye@***.eisa.net.au) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .Being open - radically open to crossing the bridge between the two
Elissa. . . . .i don't think we can hold onto the future any more than we can hold onto the past... but we can focus forward and that opens us to possibility
RevRandy. . . . .and realizing, for me at least, that "they" are now part of the flow of being into the future
Hanna. . . . .I'm not thinking of myself so much.. but others I know.. who are finding the loss painful now.. in the present.. and can't move past that into a future that has no substance for them.
Hanna. . . . .Know what I'm saying?
Elissa. . . . .this also connects with what rikkity has said about communication... the reason so many have trouble communicating with their loved ones in spirit
Elissa. . . . .if you're looking for them in the past or present you won't connect with them--they're not there...
RevRandy. . . . .if we perceive that a person's spirit ends at death, then the loss will always be contained in the past; if we perceive a continuity of spirit, then there is hope of connection in the future
Elissa. . . . .focusing on the future means you can connect with them... that's enough incentive for me!!!
joy. . . . .me too
RevRandy. . . . .I know people who, though they be the same advanced age as I, spend all of their time reliving their university years, as if their lives all were only lived back then.
RevRandy. . . . .and so at reunions they cannot connect to us, as we have become
RevRandy. . . . .they want us so badly to be as we were that they miss us as we are
TF88. . . . .E, I'm sorry, I don't understand
TF88. . . . .why can't we connect with them in the present?
Elissa. . . . .tf, because they have moved on
Elissa. . . . .when we open ourselves to communication with spirit, we're really talking about a connection with the person as they are in the future, aren't we
Elissa. . . . .at least, the "future" in our terms
Elissa. . . . .does that make sense?
*** journey (ptomli4650@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Alisa. . . . .so you connect with Rikkity in the future?
Elissa. . . . .focusing forward, alisa... she once said that the reason we're able to communicate is that we were willing to hope that a connection we had never known was possible--isn't that the future?
RevRandy. . . . .focusing, facing, hoping in the future
RevRandy. . . . .as opposed to focusing, facing, having faith in the past
Elissa. . . . .if we tried to connect with her as she was, or as she would have been had she lived it wouldn't work the way it does
RevRandy. . . . .it occurs in the present
RevRandy. . . . .but it is oriented to the future
RevRandy. . . . .good point E
Elissa. . . . .the future is just our word for the possibilities that we cannot yet see clearly
*** deezee (dzogg@***.brazoria.tgn.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
TF88. . . . .aren't you connecting with her as she IS?
RevRandy. . . . .yes - which is her future made now in her life
RevRandy. . . . .not in our lives
Elissa. . . . .we are, tf, but we don't really understand her world... her world is our future
TF88. . . . .ok, that I understand
*** Jackie (ADCjava@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .we take that leap of hope and faith and keep open to whatever happens
RevRandy. . . . .not knowing where it will take us, but trusting our connection to her
Alisa. . . . .thankyou Elissa, I "get" a little of it LOL
journey. . . . .we strive in ways for her understanding?
Elissa. . . . .i'm pondering this as i type LOL
Elissa. . . . .hi journey :)
journey. . . . .hi, glad to be here :)
RevRandy. . . . .let me try a physical metaphor
RevRandy. . . . .if you have a group and a leader
RevRandy. . . . .and that group and leader are going on a hike
RevRandy. . . . .and you ask that the leader stay where s/he used to be, you get nowhere
RevRandy. . . . .and if you ask that the leader stay where s/he is now, you get nowhere
RevRandy. . . . .but if you allow the possibility that the leader will move, and that you, in the future can go where the leader went, then the group can move on, and move into the future, and have a nice hike
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .now translate that to spiritual terms, and have a nice spiritual hike
TF88. . . . .so you move "now" toward the future
RevRandy. . . . .yep, TF
Elissa. . . . .yes, you begin in the Now and focus on moving forward
RevRandy. . . . .you allow it to move
journey. . . . .brings a smile to my face :-), very positive
Elissa. . . . .we have to begin in the Now... it's where we are :)
RevRandy. . . . .I'm not
RevRandy. . . . .I was, but I'm not, o wait, yes I am
TF88. . . . .and the "now" changes constantly as long as we move forward
RevRandy. . . . .yep - and new ground is covered ...
RevRandy. . . . .facing the other way, we just cover the old territory
Elissa. . . . .what i think rikkity is saying is don't glorify the present and think that you can stay in the Now and move forward
Elissa. . . . .but this is all very new to us, too
RevRandy. . . . .yep - still working at getting it all
Elissa. . . . .we're wrestling with it along with you
Elissa. . . . .well maybe randy will get it all but i'm sure i won't LOL
RevRandy. . . . .I may not get it all ... but the possibility is there, in the future
TF88. . . . .so the question is whether we're living in a stagnant now or a moving now
RevRandy. . . . .yep TF
TF88. . . . .arghhhhhhhh, wish she had just said so LOL
Hanna. . . . .lolol
LadyDi. . . . .lol tf
Elissa. . . . .ok that's another way to see it... but "now" seems to imply that you know what it is
RevRandy. . . . .but she had you go your own journey to see it
TF88. . . . .no, I mean the now that you discover each moment
RevRandy. . . . .that's the one
RevRandy. . . . .and if it is old ground, you are not discovering it
Elissa. . . . .as rikkity said, the past is much easier to predict than the future
RevRandy. . . . .I have a little smidge of the PtoP to end up with
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"But that's not the way I, or most others think when alive. I was as dense
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2as the rest. I worried about Papa dying first. But it wouldn't have really
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2mattered if I saw him as part of my future, not just part of my past. And I
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2had to get here and see him in bathing trunks here to realize that. O how
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2many will mourn the years lost in pining and grieving when they get here.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Regrets, no... more like ‘duh.' So that's the scoop." (1/30/2000)
RevRandy. . . . .it wouldn't have mattered if ......
RevRandy. . . . .what a sentence ...
RevRandy. . . . .saw him as part of my future, not just part of my past
RevRandy. . . . .that is this sense, in the now embracing the future
Elissa. . . . .if we see life and death as a continuity from past to present to future it changes how we see loss
journey. . . . .wow, she is just a little direct huh?
Elissa. . . . .yes, journey. she always was!
*** mesa` (nobody@***.nmkt1.on.wave.home.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .she was always just who she was :)
Elissa. . . . .and still is... and will be lol
Alisa. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .i have to watch my tenses now lol
journey. . . . .i wish you could have a Rikkity question nite?
RevRandy. . . . .Hmmmm, quiz the kid
Elissa. . . . .how do you mean journey?
journey. . . . .yeah, b/c she is very enlightening and direct and i think it would be great
Elissa. . . . .o, she's been here and answered questions... to do it for a whole 2 hours would be tough on the mommy-moo lol
Elissa. . . . .but she was here last week and she'll be back
RevRandy. . . . .and don't expect that just because you get to frame the questions, her answers won't take you out in the brush just as much
Elissa. . . . .hahahaha
journey. . . . .darn i missed it, but would love to be again even if she says after an hour that is all for her, she is entitled to do as she feels and you too elissa
Elissa. . . . .i'll ask her journey
RevRandy. . . . .o - she would never be timid about speaking her mind and setting her limits
Elissa. . . . .no
RevRandy. . . . .(either of them)
journey. . . . .thanks, she sounds so interesting to me, but i keep missing the boat at times on these chats
RevRandy. . . . .it will happen
Elissa. . . . .so any more random or profound thoughts out there on tonight's topic?
Elissa. . . . .and--before i forget again--if anyone wants to be on our mailing list and isn't, please let me know
journey. . . . .i would, how do i send you my email addy
Elissa. . . . .pm or email me
RevRandy. . . . .wrap your addy in a thousand dollar bill and ..... opps this is a non-profit chat
TF88. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .ebb@spiritualpersistence.com
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .always trying
Elissa. . . . .you certainly are :)
journey. . . . .k, heehe if i get the publisher clearing house sweepstakes at my door i am in hon :)
RevRandy. . . . .;-)
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .hey - they didn't come here tonight like they were scheduled to do
Elissa. . . . .ok, last chance guys... thoughts? ponderings? questions?
*** Bel (ADCjava@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .and, by the way, the Rev (Moi) will not be here next Sunday, but Elissa will
Jackie. . . . .have a great week
RevRandy. . . . .thanks
Alisa. . . . .thanks for the chat Rev and Elissa! very inspiring....Good night All:)
Elissa. . . . .thanks jackie, you too!
RevRandy. . . . .Be well all
TF88. . . . .night alisa
Elissa. . . . .nite alisa
joy. . . . .thanks
RevRandy. . . . .night TF
TF88. . . . .night everyone
LadyDi. . . . .thank you for sharing with me Elissa Rev and Rikkity *HUGS*
Elissa. . . . .nite TF
Jackie. . . . .night everyone
LadyDi. . . . .sweet dreams
Elissa. . . . .rainbow song coming
Alisa. . . . .nite TF:O Elissa
Elissa. . . . .((((((ladydi))))))
journey. . . . .thanks for sharing your selves elissa and rev, :)
RevRandy. . . . .thanks for being with us
Elissa. . . . .thank you for being here journey
RevRandy. . . . .it is a mutual sharing that counts
Elissa. . . . .thank you all for coming tonight!
journey. . . . .i wish i could have gotten here sooner
Elissa. . . . .me, too :)
Hanna. . . . .It was a good night :)
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 0,7!Elissa rainbow.mid 7,0 :o)
RevRandy. . . . .it was a very good night
RevRandy. . . . .every night with you people is a good night
Elissa. . . . .thanks, hanna-pie! lots of new stuff to ponder for all of us
Hanna. . . . .yup yup
Jackie. . . . .lots of fun and inspiration
Elissa. . . . .new ideas are not easily digested lol
Elissa. . . . .glad you enjoyed it jackie
RevRandy. . . . .a great combo, jackie - I'll have a fun and inspiration on rye, please
RevRandy. . . . .hold the mustard
Elissa. . . . .i'll have one with everything :)
Jackie. . . . .ketchup
Hanna. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .I am one with everything
RevRandy. . . . .night all!!!!!!!!!
Jackie. . . . .there you go!
journey. . . . .hotdog!
Session Close: Sun Jan 30 23:13:01 2000