log021300

Session Start: Sun Feb 13 20:57:22 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Tonight's 2,7Topic: 2,8"Your Own Backyard" 2,9Sunday 2,11February 13 0,12at 9pm 2,13EST ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

RevRandy. . . . .OK - folks
RevRandy. . . . .let's get started
RevRandy. . . . .shall we
Elissa. . . . .we shall
RevRandy. . . . .Let us gather, in our usual way, with words of invocation:
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RevRandy. . . . .May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . .Protected from all things evil,
RevRandy. . . . .and guided in all ways gracious. Amen.
Elissa. . . . .amen~
Hanna. . . . .Blessings to all :)
TF88. . . . .peace
RevRandy. . . . .we all have been given an assignment by Rikkity
RevRandy. . . . .and it goes like this:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"This Sunday we talk about the end of 'The Wizard of Oz,' where all you want or need you've always had...
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1For it involves time and space which, being illusions, collapse the whole field of being into any given moment, place, or event.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Nothing is ever really elsewhere. We just don't realize this until we get spiritually smart.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1And then WHAM we get a new set of things to be smart about. Ouch! that smarts."
RevRandy. . . . .so, that is our assignment ...
RevRandy. . . . .and before we move on to the specifics of the Wizard, et al, did this opening provoke any thoughts in any of you?
bluelight. . . . .that whole movie was symbolic i hear
Hanna. . . . .yep..it says "oh no.. there's always more!"
RevRandy. . . . .yep - always more - but it is already here too
Elissa. . . . .lol you would pick up on that one hanna!
Hanna. . . . .hahaha
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Cat. . . . .explain please..
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RevRandy. . . . .OK - we need to remember that time and space are all illusions
RevRandy. . . . .that are human constructs to keep things from happening all at once, all in the same place, in our mind's view
RevRandy. . . . .but, that being true, what we perceive to be elsewhere is not really distant, just perceived as distant
RevRandy. . . . .and when we begin to see that we are never separated from all-that-is, we are "smarter" spiritually
RevRandy. . . . .does that explain it, Cat?
Hanna. . . . .Is that sort of like saying that we each create our own reality.. and therefore our own constraints within that reality?
Marie1. . . . .yep
Elissa. . . . .more like we each are who we are--in and part of our own field of being
RevRandy. . . . .I think the constraint part is right, Hanna, but just because we create those constraints doesn't mean they are real - there is more outside of what we choose to see
Hanna. . . . .Exactly, Rev.. the constraints are our own making... our comfort space.
Marie1. . . . .but the energy that we put into that reality, if it is not clear energy, can create or build a block or barrier to the outcomes
RevRandy. . . . .our security blanket, spiritually, which we outgrow as we see that what is beyond is not foreign, alien, etc
Cat. . . . .I was curious about Hanna's "There's always more"
RevRandy. . . . .ohhhhhhhhhh, sorry ... Hanna?
Hanna. . . . .Well, I see in that piece that as we learn and understand the space we're in... we simply shift into another space.. and more to learn there... it never ends. We are always learning and growing.
RevRandy. . . . .no, not always Hanna - just for an infinite number of lives
Elissa. . . . .right hanna
Elissa. . . . .lol randy
bluelight. . . . .what does this have to do with how we operate in life?
Elissa. . . . .that's what we'll talk about tonight blue
RevRandy. . . . .OK - blue - your question gets to one of the hearts of this matter (If I only had a heart ....)
bluelight. . . . .o goody
TF88. . . . .do you find that as you learn and understand more, space feels wider?
Elissa. . . . .interesting question, tf... do you?
RevRandy. . . . .TF - I would say so if you focus on the space, and not on the limitations
TF88. . . . .yes E, I do feel that...but I also feel wider myself...hard to explain
RevRandy. . . . .hmmm, interesting TF - it would all be relative as we grow in appreciation
Elissa. . . . .in many ways i feel narrower--as in, more focused--but the horizons i see become wider at the same time
Hanna. . . . .Tf.. maybe as you learn more.. you open up more, knowing that it's not so scary... don't have to stay in a small, safe place?
TF88. . . . .perhaps hanna...more feels within reach, but also more awareness outside the immediate vicinity
Elissa. . . . .we don't need so many defenses and walls
Marie1. . . . .TF, to me i find that I become more at one with space...I feel more connected, and kinda transparent...things happen around me and if it is not intended for me, it just passes through me without touching...when it is intended for me, I feel somewhat connected to that thing or situation
TF88. . . . .connected to a bigger space
Hanna. . . . .yep, I understand.. it's hard to put into words.
Hanna. . . . .There's a security in the knowledge that we are 'remembering'
TF88. . . . .and yes, E, more focused
RevRandy. . . . .I think of Whitman (the poet, not the candy sampler) who at he same time saw himself growing to encompass all, and also embracing new horizons wider than he dared dream before
Elissa. . . . .more connected to what i'm meant to be connected to, yes, and also more connected to everything on a deeper level... not a concrete level
Marie1. . . . .actually i find that the saying that it is a small world applies...
Marie1. . . . .because when I am connected, everything feels to connect to something else, and or me...(hope it makes sense)
Elissa. . . . .it does make sense marie... and i love that song :)
TF88. . . . .I guess it's like looking at a sonata or something. At first it's overwhelmingly large, then becomes smaller but expands also because it's fuller.
Hanna. . . . .good description tf
bluelight. . . . .neat TF
RevRandy. . . . .yep TF
Elissa. . . . .very apt, tf
Marie1. . . . .oh good
TF88. . . . .whew, glad that made sense :)
RevRandy. . . . .but if you had said concerto, now that's another story
Elissa. . . . .it's like in school too... at first the material seems overwhelming because it's so new, but then it gets more focused as i make it part of who i am
Elissa. . . . .(except in that testing class lol)
RevRandy. . . . .so, I think we get the notion of what Rikkity was saying
Elissa. . . . .o sure... we understand everything lol
RevRandy. . . . .I said get, not understand ....LOL
Elissa. . . . .ah
RevRandy. . . . .but why did she point us to the Wizard (and a wonderful wizard he is)
RevRandy. . . . .to help us on our way, Elissa has provided a verbatim transcription of that portion of the movie
Cat. . . . .The wizard began as an unapproachable being, but turned into a regular person that pointed each one back to themselves.
Elissa. . . . .oooo cat that's a very cool insight!
RevRandy. . . . .yep Cat - as he said he was a very good man, just a bad wizard
Deni. . . . .and he didn't even want to be wizard did he...the munchkins appointed him Wizard
Elissa. . . . .i didn't remember that part deni-face
Deni. . . . .maybe I made it up...lol
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .I do - he explains that when he landed they appointed him the Wizard, Oz the first
Deni. . . . .thanks Rev :)
Elissa. . . . .you didn't make it up!
RevRandy. . . . .it is right there on celluloid
bluelight. . . . .so is the Wizard who we call God?
RevRandy. . . . .is it?
bluelight. . . . .i don't waste time do i LOL
Elissa. . . . .hmmmm.... good question blue
RevRandy. . . . .is God like a man behind a curtain, pretending to call all the shots, but only powerful by the allegiance given by others?
Elissa. . . . .i guess he's some people's idea of what god is
bluelight. . . . .surely i wasn't only one who thot of it
RevRandy. . . . .I have always thought of that snarling, fiery face of OZ like the fiery face of God on Sinai
bluelight. . . . .aaaaah good point .. but God has to b more than that
RevRandy. . . . .for you, blue, but maybe not for others
bluelight. . . . .not sure about for me RevR .. gotta think about it more
RevRandy. . . . .some people like the idea that all that is important is being determined for them, by some outside force
Elissa. . . . .god as magician
RevRandy. . . . .and as puppeteer
bluelight. . . . .ummm .. i believe in magic ..
bluelight. . . . .only it's really not magic
Hanna. . . . .Rev.. do they like the idea.. or have they learned it?
bluelight. . . . .good point Hanna
RevRandy. . . . .if they do not know any other, how do they know if they like it or not - it is like a back drop to their consciousness
Elissa. . . . .but it's not like there aren't any other ideas out here
bluelight. . . . .people r handed down memorizations from one generation to another what God is about ..
bluelight. . . . .when i realized that ..that's what started my thinking more
Elissa. . . . .it's also that image of god as all-powerful father figure... the one who disciplines but also the one who protects and gives us security
RevRandy. . . . .would they have liked Toto when he pulled back the curtain - to me that was liberation, but to others it might be disillusionment
bluelight. . . . .cuz they're not ready like u
Cat. . . . .Bingo - that's where I am....Toto pulled back the curtain!
RevRandy. . . . .blue - in my family we got very little handed down by memorization, and everything was up for discussion and analysis
bluelight. . . . .wow u came from a progressive family RevR ..
TF88. . . . .I think the wiz simply represents an external source to which we give our power, rather than doing for ourselves what we were capable of doing all along.
Elissa. . . . .good point tf
Elissa. . . . .and don't many people do that with god?
Hanna. . . . .and therefore the disillusionment... that it all falls back on us.. our own responsibility.. no giving it up to another, which is easier for some.
RevRandy. . . . .I like that TF - but so many live in that illusion - not just of the wizard, but also of the Witches - of good and evil being external forces
TF88. . . . .it's easier, randy, than doing for oneself
RevRandy. . . . .it appears easier .... but is it really?
TF88. . . . .good point...it's less fulfilling I would think
TF88. . . . .and slower progress
TF88. . . . .although speed isn't important
Hanna. . . . .it's easier in the short-term
RevRandy. . . . .how much work it must be to keep the questions at bay, keep the doubts hidden, keep in the insights unspoken, keep the spirit in check
Elissa. . . . .it's the child in us... children have no sense of who they are apart from their parents
Hanna. . . . .I don't know Rev.. I know a lot of people who find it easy not to think, or question. They don't even know that they should.. they don't think about it at all.
bluelight. . . . .most people need to b educated to this as most people do not think for themselves
bluelight. . . . .do u agree?
bluelight. . . . .education is key? we can't just wait wait for people to think of all this .. or can we hehe
RevRandy. . . . .well, what did the brave four (plus Toto) have to do in order to come to their recognition of their power
bluelight. . . . .i really don't know
RevRandy. . . . .they had to face their great fears
RevRandy. . . . .face the witch
TF88. . . . .and travel the scary journey
RevRandy. . . . .among the flying monkeys (I still find them scary)
TF88. . . . .(the apple orchard always got to me)
bluelight. . . . .how u get peeps to do this RevRandy?
RevRandy. . . . .a little at a time
RevRandy. . . . .a hint there,
RevRandy. . . . .a suggestion here
TF88. . . . .we can't get others to do it, but at some point they may choose to
Elissa. . . . .you get them to start thinking for themselves blue :)
RevRandy. . . . .and then when life throws a curve that is not covered by what they have supposed, the opening is possible
Elissa. . . . .you empower them, but they have to be open to that
bluelight. . . . .i also have learned it has to do with our own courage to speak up and say what is important to our heart
bluelight. . . . .it's so easy not to .. but it's in the long run more difficult on us not to speak up
RevRandy. . . . .and we also have to re-educate the religious establishment
RevRandy. . . . .there has been a long term assumption that doubt and questions are enemies of faith
RevRandy. . . . .but recent studies show that those who have risked doubting, and questioned, eventually ended up with a stronger, albeit different faith
TF88. . . . .except not in judaism randy...questioning is encouraged
RevRandy. . . . .Yep - TF - as long as the answers fit within a range of thought established long ago (except in Reform and Reconstructionist)
Elissa. . . . .but there is still an accepted range, isn't there?
bluelight. . . . .doubting in religion is ok if u arrive back where u started
RevRandy. . . . .no, doubting in religion is OK if it leads you to be where you should be ... and who is arrogant enough to suggest the s/he knows where someone else should be (OK - yea, most ministers are that arrogant)
Elissa. . . . .yep lol
bluelight. . . . .i was speaking from point of view of religion RevR
RevRandy. . . . .o yes - questioning with a leash on
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bluelight. . . . .that is only way they can encourage u to 'doubt'
bluelight. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .hi faith
Faith. . . . .Hi
bluelight. . . . .encourage but with many lectures
RevRandy. . . . .many religions give the illusion of freedom of thought, but only with a defined circle
TF88. . . . .same with society too perhaps
bluelight. . . . .we're onto em alright LOL
RevRandy. . . . .so here, in full living technicolor, is the closing scene in OZ
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2The Wizard's balloon that was to take Dorothy home breaks free when Dorothy leaves it to retrieve Toto, who jumped out to chase a cat.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Dorothy is left behind feeling lost and helpless. Then Glinda arrives in her bubble.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Dorothy (to Glinda): O will you help me... can you help me?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6Glinda: You don't need to be helped any longer. You've always had the power to go back to Kansas.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Dorothy: I have!?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,4Scarecrow: Then why didn't you tell her before?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6Glinda: Because she wouldn't have believed me. She had to learn it for herself.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,7Tin Man: What have you learned, Dorothy?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Dorothy: Well, I... I think that it... that it wasn't enough just to want to see Uncle Henry and Auntie Em.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And it's that if I ever go looking for my heart's desire again I won't look any further than my own backyard,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2because if it isn't there I never really lost it to begin with. Is that right?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6Glinda: That's all it is!
RevRandy. . . . .So many themes in this
RevRandy. . . . .That's all it is! All of that journeying, questing, searching, for this????
RevRandy. . . . .but what is "that"
TF88. . . . .isn't "that" the "wiz" who lives within us?
Elissa. . . . .what dorothy said has always given me pause... i was never quite sure i "got" it
Elissa. . . . .that's the part i always loved to hear but was never quite sure whether i understood fully
Elissa. . . . .first of all, "it wasn't enough just to want to see Uncle Henry and Auntie Em"
Elissa. . . . .i still have trouble connecting that to the rest of it in my little brain :)
bluelight. . . . .finding out autie em and uncle henry r inside her
bluelight. . . . .?
Elissa. . . . .ok blue, i see what you're saying
bluelight. . . . .wish i did :0
RevRandy. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .it wasn't about returning to what had been - and to those who were part of her past
Elissa. . . . .but she's talking about wanting to see people she misses
RevRandy. . . . .when she was focused on going back to that, she was trapped in OZ - but what got her out was a new recognition
bluelight. . . . .u have me in suspense here
Elissa. . . . .why wasn't it "enough"?
RevRandy. . . . .was it because that placed her reason for action outside of herself, in others (Em and Henry)
Elissa. . . . .aha
RevRandy. . . . .(notice she did not specifically desire to go back to Kansas, per se)
bluelight. . . . .i'm lost
Elissa. . . . .you're here, blue --------} X
bluelight. . . . .no just to c auntie em
RevRandy. . . . .I'm here ----------------------------}R
bluelight. . . . .:D E
RevRandy. . . . .but as long as that was all she realized, she stayed in OZ
Elissa. . . . .it wasn't enough because it was about the past?
Elissa. . . . .about missing what was? and so it was static?
Elissa. . . . .it got her stuck
Elissa. . . . .that makes sense
bluelight. . . . .OOOOOoooo .. just getting a teency bit .. keep going or say it again
RevRandy. . . . .but I want to suggest that we keep Blue and others in suspense until our second half
RevRandy. . . . .after a short break
bluelight. . . . .o NOOoooo
RevRandy. . . . .when we will get into what Rikkity had to say about all of this
RevRandy. . . . .o YEEsssssss
TF88. . . . .lol
bluelight. . . . .bless Rickitty!
RevRandy. . . . .so, you can keep on pondering this one - I'll be right back
bluelight. . . . .she will get me smart
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Elissa. . . . .blue, i think it's that dorothy missed auntie em and uncle henry as they had been in the past...
Elissa. . . . .so as long as she looked back and focused on that, she stopped her own journey and got stuck there
bluelight. . . . .OOOoo that's interesting E
TF88. . . . .um, i have a little question...how is the name rikkity pronounced?
Elissa. . . . .just the way it sounds, tf :)
TF88. . . . .ok, just checking, thanks :)
Carol. . . . .hi Elissa and everyone
bluelight. . . . .hi Carol
TF88. . . . .(very round-about answer E)...since I'm asking what it sounds like LOL
Elissa. . . . .ok, actually it's pronounced like the word "rickety"
bluelight. . . . .rik-ki-ty
TF88. . . . .ok, thanks
Elissa. . . . .hey carol
Elissa. . . . .ok, taking a short break now
Carol. . . . .well, geez, was it something I said :))
TF88. . . . .hi there carol
Elissa. . . . .yes carol lol
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bluelight. . . . .yah Carol ur'e not supposed to say hi in here hehehe
Carol. . . . .ok, I'll try and remember that, lol
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RevRandy. . . . .OK - serious time folks
Elissa. . . . .well ok!
RevRandy. . . . .BUT NOW
RevRandy. . . . .BACK TO RIKKITY
Carol. . . . .PAY ATTENTION
Carol. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .so, here is what she said:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"So, look outside. What is that area. Backyard. And if it isn't there, you never lost it.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1But you've lost it many times. But seriously folks... field, web of being; yes, your backyard is part of that.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1And so if it isn't there, it's not in your web.
RevRandy. . . . .I will share all of her recent message, but I want to stop along the way
RevRandy. . . . .(and smell the roses?)
RevRandy. . . . .and see what we see in her thoughts
bluelight. . . . .what is our backyard .. what we want?
RevRandy. . . . .You define it - it is your most familiar territory - it is the private part of home
Elissa. . . . ."if I ever go looking for my heart's desire again I won't look any further than my own backyard,
Elissa. . . . .because if it isn't there I never really lost it to begin with."
bluelight. . . . .ok .. then can u give an example E?
bluelight. . . . .i can
RevRandy. . . . .so what Rikkity is saying, IMHO, is that if you can't find something in the ordinary, the everyday, then it is not part of your grander picture either
RevRandy. . . . .yes , blue
bluelight. . . . .if u lose a child and they're not in the back yard .. it doesn't mean they're not there
bluelight. . . . .c i'm too deep :(
RevRandy. . . . .hmmm, yes, blue - I see what you are saying - just because they have left the familiar does not mean they are "gone"
Elissa. . . . .well, to me it means that if i think i lost it but it wasn't really mine to begin with then i didn't really lose it
Carol. . . . .It means to me that if we can't be grateful for what we have, we can't expect to have more
bluelight. . . . .{--- is all mixed up now
RevRandy. . . . .yes to Carol and Blue and Elissa - yes to all of you
bluelight. . . . .i think it means what u think u don't have u really do have
Elissa. . . . .what it means is what it means to you
bluelight. . . . .ah darn that's too easy E
Elissa. . . . .not really so easy, blue lol
bluelight. . . . .it's gotta b just one
bluelight. . . . .:D
Elissa. . . . .it means you have to think about it :)
RevRandy. . . . .no - no one answer - many answers -
RevRandy. . . . .if there were but one answer, why talk about it
bluelight. . . . .i was kidding
Elissa. . . . .i know
TF88. . . . .perhaps also actually recognizing what you have, that which you have never noticed before?
Elissa. . . . .the abundance of what really is there in your life
RevRandy. . . . .Dorothy went looking elsewhere for it all - and did not find it there, until she realized it was back home all the time
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Too many people look for what they think they lost, but it was from someone else's web or field.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Your field and another connect, yes. You hear stories about the other.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1That doesn't mean it's in your backyard. It's in theirs.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1There is an old story about dogs in Levittown who went crazy trying to find bones they had buried in look-alike backyards.
bluelight. . . . .isn't it possible to have what u want inside u .. in a spirit way
RevRandy. . . . .now this is getting a little more complicated - how do you know if you are looking at your own backyard or at someone else's
bluelight. . . . .aHA but no one actually owns anything
bluelight. . . . .so what's in your back yard i can own in a way by just observing it
Carol. . . . .It also means to me that you have to be peaceful inside, rather than looking elsewhere
TF88. . . . .experience it, not own it
bluelight. . . . .like that mountain over there etc.
Elissa. . . . .ok, here's what i thought of when i heard this: having lost a child...
Elissa. . . . .many who have--and i was one of them--look at other people's lives with their children and say "i have lost all those years s/he should have been alive with me"...
Elissa. . . . .but the reality of it is that if your child was with you for x number of years, then that's what your reality is and you haven't lost what you never had to begin with
bluelight. . . . .the answer to that is that some time they will have those years and much more
bluelight. . . . .i think anyway
TF88. . . . .oh, good example E
RevRandy. . . . .and if you try to appropriate someone else's reality, it will never get you to be where you need to be
RevRandy. . . . .(only running around like crazy looking for buried bones or mourning lost years that were never lost)
bluelight. . . . .they will b able to c what their child was doing
Elissa. . . . .yes, blue, but it won't be the same as someone else's reality who had their child/husband/sibling/parent with them physically
bluelight. . . . .Elissa u don't know that .. it might b more than what the others had
Elissa. . . . .i meant it won't be the same, blue... just not the same
bluelight. . . . .it might b BETTER i meant
Elissa. . . . .i agree, blue
bluelight. . . . .in other words .. the person's child is living somewhere .. since we're all connected and there's no difference in time some time they will b aware of all they did
Carol. . . . .thats good, E, I never really felt like I lost years with Kelley, but sometimes think/thought that she should be here instead of some of the criminals, etc
Elissa. . . . .right carol, that's how most people react
RevRandy. . . . .On a trip once I met someone who, in the midst of their vacation, upon getting a postcard from a friend on a different vacation, claimed that she was losing out on that other great vacation
Carol. . . . .they weren't living their life for today, were they?
RevRandy. . . . .nope - not at all - living in "what if's"
Marie1. . . . .yep
RevRandy. . . . .well, here's some more Rikkity
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"So, when we feel loss we have to be able to know what we lost; not just what we think we lost.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1True, what we think we lost is real in a way,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1but being able to so differentiate allows us a better understanding of ourselves and our field.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1As we find out what of our feelings is not us, we also find us.
TF88. . . . .I guess it's easy to feel robbed of more years with a loved one because we expected to have more years...so we feel we lost something, even though we only had it in our mind, not in reality.
RevRandy. . . . .we all, I think, at times, feel like we lost something that we never really had
RevRandy. . . . .and act as if it had been ours, what we claim is lost as if it had ever been ours
Carol. . . . .or feel that we are missing some huge chunk of something, but don't know what it is
Elissa. . . . .yes tf, we focus on what isn't there
TF88. . . . .wow, had an "aha" moment
Elissa. . . . .ooooo tell us about it!
RevRandy. . . . .yes, TF
Elissa. . . . .yes carol
Carol. . . . .I used to feel that way, but not any more
TF88. . . . .well, for many years now I have grieved over feeling a loss of having a loving parent in the way I have seen others have
TF88. . . . .but I didn't lose it...I just never had it!
TF88. . . . .i've grieved over something I thought I lost, but never had.
Elissa. . . . .bingo tf!!!
bluelight. . . . .yes Tf i had that too
TF88. . . . .(not that my parent wasn't "loving"...just not like other wonderful parents I've seen)
RevRandy. . . . .right on - TF (and wait to see what Rikkity is going to say in a few sentences below)
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Suppose someone is looking to transform their family into the Cleavers... no, not Eldridge.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1They feel they lost out on their childhood. But hey, there is only one Beaver--and it ain't you, babe.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Everyone gets a childhood, so you can't have lost it. It might not look like everyone else's, but it's yours.
Carol. . . . .I understand that too TF, my mother and I were never close, and I missed that
Elissa. . . . .me too... i think we all had the same mother
TF88. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .so, right on the money - you never lost it if you didn't have it
TF88. . . . .but, I can't say that all that grieving I've done was a waste of time...I did learn much by experiencing the process.
TF88. . . . .as long as I don't get "trapped" there
Elissa. . . . .we spend so many years---and time with therapists lol--trying to come to terms with what we never had to begin with!
Elissa. . . . .true, it takes a lot of cleansing as rikkity says, to be able to move into the future uncontaminated
TF88. . . . .oh, I like that phrase
Elissa. . . . .we need to go back and look at how we got where we are and accept our reality for what it is, rather than for what it isn't--as painful as that may be
Elissa. . . . .but hey, i can't be the beaver???? then what's the use!!! lol
RevRandy. . . . .I want to be Eddie Haskell
Carol. . . . .you don't LOOK like eddie haskell, Randy, lol
RevRandy. . . . .thank you Carol, and I must say that is certainly a nice dress you are wearing. Is Wallace at home, by any chance?
Carol. . . . .why, thank you Rev, no, not now
RevRandy. . . . .thank you Mrs Cleaver
TF88. . . . .(notice randy is not interested in being the housewife?)
RevRandy. . . . .been there, done that, TF!
TF88. . . . .lol
Marie1. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .don't ask about the dress
Elissa. . . . .may i have a piece of that warm apple pie, mrs. c?
Carol. . . . .gee, and I ALMOST baked a pie today, then thought, NAH
Elissa. . . . .awwwwww
TF88. . . . .mom in law baked an apple pie today LOL
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1So, too, with every search for Paradise Lost. Aha.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1You never lived in Eden. That's someone else's story.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1And this also applies to dreams and hope.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1If it isn't yours you can't lose it, and if it is not yours you can't be it.
Elissa. . . . .paradise, apple pie... same thing lol
RevRandy. . . . .I liked that line "You never lived in Eden. That's someone else's story"
RevRandy. . . . .watch out for snakes
RevRandy. . . . .If we keep focusing on other people's paradises, we can never expect to near our own
Elissa. . . . .the eden story can only be symbolic for us
RevRandy. . . . .but hear that next part - about dreams and hopes - how they have to be our own
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Maximize your reality within the field of YOUR being.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1And conversely, when others try to load their stuff on you it is not yours either.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1So when someone suggests you've lost it because you mourn too long, how do they know you've lost it when it wasn't yours but theirs to begin with.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1I theeenk thees ees eenough.
Carol. . . . .huh
RevRandy. . . . .when people judge your behavior and suggest you should act differently, realize it is about their behavior and feelings, not yours
bluelight. . . . .she's so cute
Elissa. . . . .it's their idea of mourning they're talking about, not your reality
Elissa. . . . .she is, blue :)
bluelight. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .but, after saying this is enough ( or theees ees eeenough) she goes on anyway
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Go back only to find your own roots, not those of others.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1And you'll know when you overreach your field.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1It will feel foreign, even as you may artificially push toward it.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1When someone thinks your field is theirs, probe their experiential history.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1If they really lost it they can tell you about when they had it, and if not... wellll.
RevRandy. . . . .now this is a little more complex, it seems to me - when we deal with those who want to make your life theirs
RevRandy. . . . .when someone tries to make your backyard theirs
RevRandy. . . . .without having had your experiences.
RevRandy. . . . .but only you, with your experiences, are in the same complete field that is yours - so others can only intersect with yours, not claim theirs is the same
RevRandy. . . . .it is one thing to be told "I understand", another to be told "I know", and another to be told "It is exactly the same for me."
TF88. . . . .I think it's much easier to see when others try to make our life theirs then when we try to make others lives ours.
Elissa. . . . .tf, i think that's true but both depend on how well we know what our lives really are
TF88. . . . .yes, true Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .for someone else to claim your losses as theirs .... watch out.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1To deal with realities
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1--no matter how hard or painful or seemingly empty--
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1is still better than chasing dreams, illusions, and chimeras which appear in the mind's delusions as full and rich and promising;
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1but which--by their unreality in that life--are but facades for void, abyss, and nothingness.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1For they stand as cardboard faces on realities that aren't yours.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Look behind them and there is not only no backyard of yours,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1but--since it is distortion of someone else's backyard--it's not there, either.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1You see, it's not real for you. What you suppose is there is not real for either you or them.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1So it is empty. Absolutely empty.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Don't go there. Turn back.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Your real pain and loss is infinitely better than the pain of that emptiness." (2/12/2000)
Elissa. . . . .it gets sticky sometimes, and we can be flattered when someone else wants to make our reality their own
TF88. . . . .like the wizard was flattered?
Elissa. . . . .good one, tf
RevRandy. . . . .and like Dorothy was in his wagon at the beginning of the movie
RevRandy. . . . .this last bit is very special to me -
RevRandy. . . . .that we have to risk the pain, the work, of dealing with our realities
RevRandy. . . . .because if we choose instead to deal with someone else's, we get absolute emptiness, which is beyond painful
Elissa. . . . .how painful it is to wish for or hope for or feel we've lost what isn't there
RevRandy. . . . .all the journeys in OZ could not really bring Dorothy closer to what was her heart's desire
RevRandy. . . . .and only when the three fellow travelers could deal with their own realities did they move past their perceived lacks (losses) and find new meaning
Elissa. . . . .yes randy, and the journey was about the journey and not the destination :)
RevRandy. . . . .when they stopped comparing their plight to others (brain, heart, nerve) could they find their own brain, heart, nerve
RevRandy. . . . .which had been with them on the journey all along
RevRandy. . . . .(and Toto too)
RevRandy. . . . .so, folks, what do you think?
bluelight. . . . .i think i know what u mean now
RevRandy. . . . .good - you have what you need with you now for your journey, blue -
RevRandy. . . . .if you didn't, it wouldn't be yours, and it wouldn't be your journey
bluelight. . . . .well first i have to really put it to work
RevRandy. . . . .but you will, when you realise it is yours
bluelight. . . . .yes i c
TF88. . . . .reminds me of something my brother said to me when I was 5
Elissa. . . . .give it back????
RevRandy. . . . .LOL
TF88. . . . .we were on a trip going to the shore and in the car I said "Are we here yet?" His response was "We're always here."
RevRandy. . . . .yes!!
Hanna. . . . .lol
TF88. . . . .:)
Elissa. . . . .wow! smart kid
TF88. . . . .yes and a smart aleck to boot!
TF88. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .comes with it usually lol
RevRandy. . . . .you were 5, and how old was he?
TF88. . . . .11
Elissa. . . . .43
Elissa. . . . .o
RevRandy. . . . .lol
TF88. . . . .LOL
Elissa. . . . .reminds me of that talking heads song "stand in the place where you are"
TF88. . . . .perhaps (unfortunately) it was the smug tone he used that caused me to always remember "we're always here."
RevRandy. . . . .older brother voice (I know that tone)
RevRandy. . . . .so, th-th-th-that's all folks!
RevRandy. . . . .talk among yourselves
Elissa. . . . .hi elissa, how are you?
RevRandy. . . . .I have no more cut and pastes left
Marie1. . . . .hi elissa, are you saying hi to yourself?
Elissa. . . . .yes i am, marie :)
Marie1. . . . .hmm, okay
RevRandy. . . . .no, you are not marie, she is
Elissa. . . . .lol
Carol. . . . .gezobezo
RevRandy. . . . .gezobezo???
Marie1. . . . .this has been quiet a chat tonight
Elissa. . . . .quiet??? you must have been next door, marie lol
TF88. . . . .hahaha
Marie1. . . . .oops...quite!!!
Marie1. . . . .lol
Carol. . . . .instead of geez
RevRandy. . . . .it was the canadian spelling
TF88. . . . .oh, cute carol!
Hanna. . . . .:P
Marie1. . . . .nope....lol
Marie1. . . . .cute uncle
TF88. . . . .hanna speaks!
TF88. . . . .and profoundly I might add ;)
Elissa. . . . .o ok marie lol
RevRandy. . . . .watch out for her tongue (and sassy lip)
Elissa. . . . .hanna is always profound... except when she isn't
Hanna. . . . .Any more profundity in this room and the floors would give way!
Marie1. . . . .:)
Elissa. . . . .hahahahahahahaha
Carol. . . . .now, THAT was profound
Marie1. . . . .rofl
TF88. . . . .lol
Marie1. . . . .i agree hanna
RevRandy. . . . .as opposed to amateur fundity
Elissa. . . . .we TRY to be shallow but it just doesn't seem to work!!!!!
TF88. . . . .lol randy
RevRandy. . . . .let's be shallow
RevRandy. . . . .so, how about those Leaf's
Hanna. . . . .shallow is good...
RevRandy. . . . .especially if you can't swim
Hanna. . . . .yup
Elissa. . . . .shallow is good???!!!!
RevRandy. . . . .so, how about that Oprah - what will she think of next?
* Elissa throws hanna into the deep end of the swimming pool
Hanna. . . . .yep.. you don't get your hair wet
RevRandy. . . . .Rev goes to her aid -
Hanna. . . . .hey!!!
* Carol hopes Rev can swim
RevRandy. . . . .but forgets he can't walk on water
* TF88 hands hanna a pina colada
Hanna. . . . .sheesh.. I'm good.. I'm quiet.. and what do I get? Abuse! :P
Elissa. . . . .rainbow song time, folks.... thank you all so much for this discussion. it was great!
RevRandy. . . . .abuse, you want abuse
Carol. . . . .can we all sing?????
Carol. . . . .stand in a circle and hold hands?
Marie1. . . . .sure
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 0,7!Elissa rainbow.mid 7,0 :o)
RevRandy. . . . .sure - or paws, or claws
Hanna. . . . .What do we sing... the brady bunch song?
Elissa. . . . .somewhere over the rainbow...
RevRandy. . . . .you know the song
Elissa. . . . .hanna we should sing the cleaver song
RevRandy. . . . .one more time ... for all of our backyards so full of rainbows we sometimes do not notice
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 1,13!Elissa rainbow.mid 13,1 :o)
Marie1. . . . .i love you all
Elissa. . . . .((((((marie))))))
RevRandy. . . . .love to you too
Hanna. . . . .{{{{{room}}}}}}}
TF88. . . . .love you too marie :)
RevRandy. . . . .and the Rev, up since 5:45 this morning, now bids you all adieu -
* Elissa pulls hanna out of the pool and dries her off :)
Hanna. . . . .Well folks... I need to get going... great conversation tonight, I enjoyed it.
TF88. . . . .night hanna :)
* Marie1 puts rev in the pool
Hanna. . . . .so goodnight.. I'm off to blowdry my hair.. :P
Elissa. . . . .i need to go too, guys... love to you all!
Elissa. . . . .even hanna :P
RevRandy. . . . .good to see you all
Hanna. . . . .lol
TF88. . . . .night everyone
RevRandy. . . . .night
Marie1. . . . .okay rev, love you and rest well
Hanna. . . . .See you all soon.... stay safe!