log111200

Session Start: Sun Nov 12 20:29:57 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"Time" 2,9Sunday 2,11November 12 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker, M.Ed. (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

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Elissa. . . . .hi everyone!
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Kath. . . . .(((((Elissa)))) ((((room))))
Moon. . . . .Hi Elissa:)
Elissa. . . . .all on "time" lol
rustie. . . . .hi Elissa, long time
Elissa. . . . .yes, rustie, good to see you!
RevRandy. . . . .hello everybody
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rustie. . . . .hello RevRandy, Long time
RevRandy. . . . .long time? but does time exist?
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rustie. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .arf arf (to fang)
Elissa. . . . .hey fang :)
fang. . . . .ty
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Elissa. . . . .hey fs :)
firespirit. . . . .Good Evennnninggggggg everyone!
Jess. . . . .hi
RevRandy. . . . .hi fire
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Elissa. . . . .hey wt :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .fs, Elissa :)
RevRandy. . . . .hey WT
WhiteTiger. . . . .hiya RR ;)
* Elissa reminds everyone that our last chat will be on December 17!
TF88. . . . .you mean for this year, yes?
fang. . . . .last chat?
WhiteTiger. . . . .last chat?
RevRandy. . . . .last, as in this present time frame ....
WhiteTiger. . . . .ya wosing out on us?
Elissa. . . . .there's a possibility we may resume next September, but yes until then
Moon. . . . .Please this is the best chat room on this site.
RevRandy. . . . .I will be gone on sabbatical for 6+ months
Elissa. . . . .we need to start focusing our time and energy on our books
WhiteTiger. . . . .aw shuckins
firespirit. . . . .I am sorry to hear that..I enjoy these discussions..
Elissa. . . . .so keep them going!!! :)
RevRandy. . . . .ty all --
fang. . . . .you mean sept 2001??????
RevRandy. . . . .fraid so
firespirit. . . . .I understand...
RevRandy. . . . .for most of the 2001 I will be off in a very distant time zone, with unknown internet connections
fang. . . . .you know how to make someone feel worse
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa's lips must move when she's writing... only thing I can think of that would take so long writing a book ;)
RevRandy. . . . .plus there are those books that are started ..... but never get finished
Elissa. . . . .awwwww sorry gang :(
Elissa. . . . .:P wt
Moon. . . . .We are sorry, very very sorry
WhiteTiger. . . . .;)
Elissa. . . . .how's that for lips moving lol
RevRandy. . . . .we are party-poopers, aren't we
RevRandy. . . . .well, anymoo, here we are tonight
firespirit. . . . .no just have other things too do...
WhiteTiger. . . . .carpe diem
RevRandy. . . . .and before we begin, I need to make a slight confession
WhiteTiger. . . . .ten pater nosters and 15 hail mary's, RR
RevRandy. . . . .the Rev is on drugs tonight ... had a very serious muscle condition these past few weeks, and so am on some various things
RevRandy. . . . .which seem OK most of the time, but if my typing suddenly go whj e0i9udc reh hjkh ekjh fk , sh r hw you will know why
firespirit. . . . .(((RR)))) sorry to hear your having health problems..
Elissa. . . . .this is your rev :)... this is your rev on drugs :*)
TF88. . . . .ROFL
RevRandy. . . . .ROFL
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
firespirit. . . . .LOL
Moon. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .at least I am mellow ......
RevRandy. . . . .mellow yellow
RevRandy. . . . .quite all right
firespirit. . . . .Mellllllowwwwwwww!
WhiteTiger. . . . .cool...
RevRandy. . . . .but I am feeling much better now ......
firespirit. . . . .Good... :)
* WhiteTiger makes note to self... ignore elissa, nail the rev while he's zonked
RevRandy. . . . .and with that note, let's get started, shall we?
RevRandy. . . . .opppppppps
Elissa. . . . .uh oh randy's in trouble now
RevRandy. . . . .dare ya, WT
Elissa. . . . .you'll get no sympathy from me, randy lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .let's go!!!
RevRandy. . . . .welcome to SP, our weekly look into widsom
RevRandy. . . . .coming to us from deep inside
Elissa. . . . .widsom lol
RevRandy. . . . .and far away
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .(Look, I already expressed my caveat .... so it is widsom)
firespirit. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .just keep typing
RevRandy. . . . .OK - we need no introduction
RevRandy. . . . .so, let us begin with our invocation
RevRandy. . . . .please join in the spirit of these words
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And guided in all ways gracious.
RevRandy. . . . .Amen
WhiteTiger. . . . .aho
Elissa. . . . .amen~
firespirit. . . . .Amen..
Moon. . . . .amen
TF88. . . . .peace
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Elissa. . . . .hyper, say amen or something
Kath. . . . .amen
Hypernoodle. . . . .something
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .lol (how'd i know that was coming)
RevRandy. . . . .hi hyper
Hypernoodle. . . . .sorry I am late......but I had to come in to see RR practicing better living through chemistry
RevRandy. . . . .oh, boy, a little confession goes a long way .....
Hypernoodle. . . . .It's good for the soul though!
firespirit. . . . .cute...LOL
RevRandy. . . . .our topic tonight is TIME ....
RevRandy. . . . .or not
* Hypernoodle is glad I got here in time
RevRandy. . . . .in that we will be thinking about time, but from some different perspectives
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RevRandy. . . . .as is our usual practice,
RevRandy. . . . .we will offer up some Points to Ponder from Rikkity
RevRandy. . . . .and either Elissa or I (or maybe both) will share our thoughts
RevRandy. . . . .and then the floor will be open (watch out you don't fall in)
RevRandy. . . . .for any and all of your thoughts
WhiteTiger. . . . .don't forget the widsom
Elissa. . . . .hi veronica :)
firespirit. . . . .LOL
* Veronica : Hello everyone!
RevRandy. . . . .I don't forget the widsom
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
firespirit. . . . .LOl
* Elissa notes that wt's typing seems to indicate he is always on drugs
RevRandy. . . . .So, let's get started
firespirit. . . . .LOL
Hypernoodle. . . . .or should be........
firespirit. . . . .LOL
Elissa. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .60's flashbacks, Elissa... "the gift that keeps on giving" ;)
fang. . . . .send me some if it will get rid of a cold
Elissa. . . . .yo dude :)
firespirit. . . . .ROFL
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Here's another image: time strands woven into a hypertime that is a fabric
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2which makes a new strand of higher time. History is a written attempt to
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2replicate it. Someone should design a computer 3D simulation of it. Hey,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2they will... or they did. Both true. You can't manipulate it but you can see
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2the patterns. A question to ponder: A program generates random strands that,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2over time, become interlocked and form a pattern without intent or plan; yet
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2from there on the fabric has order. Wha happened." (1/29/98 - B#21)
RevRandy. . . . .OK
Elissa. . . . .hyper, are you on hypertime?
Hypernoodle. . . . .hehe....just my one working brain cell
RevRandy. . . . .this poses for me a question
RevRandy. . . . .or actually many questions
RevRandy. . . . .but to begin
RevRandy. . . . .the thing we call time
RevRandy. . . . .is it a simple strand of events in some linearity
RevRandy. . . . .a movement across existence
RevRandy. . . . .which is the sole path of being
RevRandy. . . . .ordered into a recordable sequence
RevRandy. . . . .or is time only one strand
RevRandy. . . . .of events
RevRandy. . . . .that stretches across
RevRandy. . . . .events
RevRandy. . . . .linking them in some way
RevRandy. . . . .but which is not the only strand out there?
WhiteTiger. . . . .it's just one of many, imo
Hypernoodle. . . . .Is this a trick question?
RevRandy. . . . .Is there a sense in which the one strand which we call time
RevRandy. . . . .is only a single thread in some tapestry
RevRandy. . . . .of many threads
RevRandy. . . . .weaving together into a pattern
Hypernoodle. . . . .That one!
Elissa. . . . .or a way of ordering what's in the pattern?
RevRandy. . . . .in which "time" is only one dimension of a complexity beyond our knowing
RevRandy. . . . .And although we see/sense that time has an orderliness to it
RevRandy. . . . .is that in fact there, or is time really random
RevRandy. . . . .given its meaning only in relation to the other unseen elements of the tapestry we do not yet perceive?
RevRandy. . . . .Our seeming linear lives made to appear that way by dimensions we do not perceive?
RevRandy. . . . .And when we place our faith in time as a linear, quantitative mode,
RevRandy. . . . .as in "a minute is a minute"
RevRandy. . . . .and all time can be measured
WhiteTiger. . . . .or made to seem that way by the limitations built into us
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RevRandy. . . . .are we imposing a structure from inside which invalidates the larger realities that lie outside our very limited field of knowing
WhiteTiger. . . . .hmmmmm
RevRandy. . . . .I think I have posed enough questions .... I do not know the answer other than to say
RevRandy. . . . .that making time a linear certainty is not it
Hypernoodle. . . . .Elissa?
Elissa. . . . .i think i need a more concrete example here
Elissa. . . . .hyper
Hypernoodle. . . . .Does RR go on like this at home when he is on meds?
Elissa. . . . .fraid so :(
Hypernoodle. . . . .bummer
RevRandy. . . . .even not on meds
Elissa. . . . .yep
WhiteTiger. . . . .don't see how we can invalidate them... flight was always possible, even before the wright bros... our failure to perceive possibilities doesn't negate them
Hypernoodle. . . . .well, I am sticking to the tapestry thing
RevRandy. . . . .WT - good point -
Elissa. . . . .fair, not really good
RevRandy. . . . .our internal senses do not define the full possibilities
WhiteTiger. . . . .tapestry is ok for 2D stuff... I tend to visualise a brick, with an infinitely tiny thread squirming it's way through it
Hypernoodle. . . . .maybe it is our "learned" senses that are limiting?
Kath. . . . .i agree hyper, "time" is a concept human beings created and agreed on collectively to bring a sense of control to this experience, my mind struggles to wrap the limited concept of time around the "unlimited"
RevRandy. . . . .I think kids tell us that much of it is learned .... their sense of time is so open compared to ours
Hypernoodle. . . . .our sense of time in different situations varies also
RevRandy. . . . .hyper - that is the idea of elasticity
RevRandy. . . . .and I suspect that all of us have experience with that ....
RevRandy. . . . .I will share one with you .... and then invite your own memories
RevRandy. . . . .last June I was scheduled on a 5:50 am flight
RevRandy. . . . .from an airport that is 45 minutes away
RevRandy. . . . .I dutifully set my alarm to be open an hour early
RevRandy. . . . .to get ready an leave ...
RevRandy. . . . .now, let me see, need to leave by about 4:30, so set the alarm for .....
RevRandy. . . . .and I somehow got it wrong
Hypernoodle. . . . .I love the blend of formal and informal language when RR is on drugs :)
firespirit. . . . .thanks..
Elissa. . . . .rofl!
firespirit. . . . .I read ponders to ponder in my email so I shouldn't be too lost..
RevRandy. . . . .just as I as kissing Elissa goodbye for a leisurely trip to the airport, expecting it to be about 4:30, I saw it was 5am
firespirit. . . . .points to ponder I mean..who is on drugs..
* Elissa pastes a big gold star on firespirit's forehead
RevRandy. . . . .and so had about 45 minutes to make the flight, with the same amount of time to get there ....
RevRandy. . . . .but somehow, I don’t know how, I made the flight, with time to spare, AND I DID NOT SPEED (lest you presume that)
RevRandy. . . . .time expanded
Hypernoodle. . . . .or.....
Hypernoodle. . . . .your clock was wrong
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .i have another one i have another one
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .yes, elissa, - relieve me of my typing duties , please
firespirit. . . . .LOL
Hypernoodle. . . . .(((rr)))
Elissa. . . . .last april me and my friend keiko
Elissa. . . . .went to a conference in charlotte, north carolina
RevRandy. . . . .I and my friend Keiko
Elissa. . . . .it's about 6 hours from here with no traffic...
Hypernoodle. . . . .My friend and me
Hypernoodle. . . . .hmmmm
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WhiteTiger. . . . .he getts feisty when he's zooped, don't he?
Elissa. . . . .Rikkity told us to leave the hotel there about noon,
Elissa. . . . .which we did....
Elissa. . . . .we stopped for lunch for an hour and 20 minutes,
Elissa. . . . .and made another stop to get gas...
Elissa. . . . .and we arrived home at 6pm
Elissa. . . . .that is impossible!!!
Hypernoodle. . . . .cool!
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Elissa. . . . .'twas way cool :)
Hypernoodle. . . . .time jumping! hehe
Elissa. . . . .haha
Hypernoodle. . . . .was what I always called it :)
Elissa. . . . .i like it
Elissa. . . . .i’m done, randy :)
RevRandy. . . . .OK - any else have such a tale to tell
Hypernoodle. . . . .don't know if it fits but it is online stuff.......
WhiteTiger. . . . .I once went camping... had so much fun I stayed another day in the mts... but got back to the lowlands in the morning, went to work, and it was monday, not tuesday
WhiteTiger. . . . .sorry hyper... didn't mean to step on yer post
Hypernoodle. . . . .I have had times in chat when I have responded to lines that I saw posted on my screen before they were actually posted......the other people in chat don't really appreciate that I had already seen them come up on my screen lol
Moon. . . . .I noticed that
Elissa. . . . .lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .I figured I had a really fast monitor!
RevRandy. . . . .i think chats are a good example of this ..... that in specific exchanges things can be out of sequence, but overall it all forms a pattern
RevRandy. . . . .the threads are there -- but it is the total sum that is the chat
Moon. . . . .Or you are very Hyper!!
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .great story, wt
RevRandy. . . . .WT - what a great way to have eight days a week
Hypernoodle. . . . .hehe.....the thing is RR.....they really were on my screen before they were posted by the other people
Hypernoodle. . . . .so I saw them 2 times
RevRandy. . . . .well, hyper, some are just more connected
WhiteTiger. . . . .when i was in my early teens, I would often wander around for days or weeks trying to place a memory I didn't have a source for... then eventually, the remembered thing would happen and it would fall into it's slot
RevRandy. . . . .you saw them twice?
Hypernoodle. . . . .yes.....that was the point
RevRandy. . . . .whoa dudette ....
Hypernoodle. . . . .it was not projecting the conversation
Hypernoodle. . . . .it was seeing it twice
RevRandy. . . . .you are caught between two strands
Elissa. . . . .the source was your field
Elissa. . . . .(wt)
WhiteTiger. . . . .yup... she is forever wondering why the same stuff has come up twice, then can't find the repeat in the scroll
Elissa. . . . .wow
Hypernoodle. . . . .it doesn't irritate me any more though lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .I just wait for the 2nd time to respond lol
Elissa. . . . .could irritate others though
RevRandy. . . . .that's good
Moon. . . . .:)
Elissa. . . . .o ok
WhiteTiger. . . . .sometimes, hyper lol
RevRandy. . . . .that's good
Hypernoodle. . . . .it is a jerking sensation when it happens most of the time
RevRandy. . . . .that's good
RevRandy. . . . .that's good
Elissa. . . . .lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .hit him....he's stuck
firespirit. . . . .LOL
Kath. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .ooooo i have permission!!!!!
firespirit. . . . .RR's drugs are good...hehe..
Hypernoodle. . . . .lolol
Elissa. . . . .i want some
RevRandy. . . . .if we assume that time is linear, then these events become extra-ordinary
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .he's bogarting, though
RevRandy. . . . .but if we assume otherwise, then they become illustrative
Hypernoodle. . . . .What if we forget time altogether?
Moon. . . . .That's the key.
RevRandy. . . . .forget it, or move outside of it
WhiteTiger. . . . .I can answer that one hyper!
firespirit. . . . .I have forgotten time many times..
Hypernoodle. . . . .I know.....I'm late for work :(
WhiteTiger. . . . .when I do that, you get REALLY annoyed at me
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .well, here's another point for us to ponder
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Transience is not always change, but only the perception of change. Is
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2something changing, or is your vantage. And just because something seems
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2permanent doesn't mean it is; it could just mean its changes parallel yours.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And that's all I have to say about that." (4/5/98 - B#22)
Hypernoodle. . . . .ok
RevRandy. . . . .I chose this one because
RevRandy. . . . .in my physics background
RevRandy. . . . .one of the ways in which time is measured is in relation to change
RevRandy. . . . .if you look at many of the formulae
RevRandy. . . . .you will see that they contain the character "t"
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RevRandy. . . . .with the time factor being one of the elements
RevRandy. . . . .and, for all of you who stayed awake in 9th grade algebra
RevRandy. . . . .you know that you can always
RevRandy. . . . .solve the equation for t if you know the rest
RevRandy. . . . .BUT
RevRandy. . . . .what if all the other data is skewed
RevRandy. . . . .if, for example, you are calculating velocity (speed)
RevRandy. . . . .you have to know distance and time
RevRandy. . . . .so you could, supposedly, knowing speed and distance, calculate time
RevRandy. . . . .BUT
RevRandy. . . . .what if distance is not really known
RevRandy. . . . .what if what you perceive as a change is where you are, that is distance,
RevRandy. . . . .is not change at all
RevRandy. . . . .only a misperception of change
RevRandy. . . . .you think you have found out time
RevRandy. . . . .but in fact, that time you find may be only a trick
RevRandy. . . . .so too with other factors in life
RevRandy. . . . .if you measure time because other things change, you may be creating a sense of time out of nothing
* Elissa is crying because she feels lost
RevRandy. . . . .OK - Elissa
WhiteTiger. . . . .well, if time (interval) is an artifact of our perceptions, then what is encompassed within time must be also... ergo, it's our vantage that shifts
RevRandy. . . . .let's get concrete
Elissa. . . . .please!!!!
RevRandy. . . . .let’s say a train timetable
Elissa. . . . .of course lol
RevRandy. . . . .says that a train leaves Patchogue
RevRandy. . . . .and an hour later gets to Babylon
RevRandy. . . . .and you sense that passage of time
RevRandy. . . . .either because the hands on your watch move
RevRandy. . . . .or the train moves through the towns in between
RevRandy. . . . .but would that same time pass if your watch were stopped?
RevRandy. . . . .or if the towns were simply illusions passing your window?
RevRandy. . . . .You can't tell.
WhiteTiger. . . . .not if it's the first time ya took the trip... then it would be about 4 times as long
RevRandy. . . . .yep - and if you were anxious - it would take forever, but if you were, say, locked in a deep passionate embrace, it would be over too soon
WhiteTiger. . . . .the term for this is ratiocination: discrimination of ratio
Elissa. . . . .yes, it always takes less time on the return trip
firespirit. . . . .Yes it does...
RevRandy. . . . .Elissa - is this discussion seeming to take forever, or happening quickly
WhiteTiger. . . . .lmao
Elissa. . . . .it varies lol
firespirit. . . . .Yes..physics is not my best subject...hehe..
RevRandy. . . . .but if we never know if it is we who are in transit, changing, or not, then we cannot know time.
RevRandy. . . . .we can only have a subjective experience of it
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... hyper's answer to yer Q was "it depends if yer typing or reading" ;)
RevRandy. . . . .or mistyping in my case
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .So, what have I provoked in your thinking so far?
firespirit. . . . .Time does not exist...
Moon. . . . .That our perception about time is what time is to US.
firespirit. . . . .Is a man made tool..
Elissa. . . . .my suggestion for using this info in a practical situation:
Elissa. . . . .when i take a shower, i say to myself "i will be out of the shower at _:__"
Elissa. . . . .and i always am out exactly at that time!
Moon. . . . .:)
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... not “there is no spoon"... "there is no clock" ;)
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Elissa. . . . .time conforms to my perceptions of it
WhiteTiger. . . . .aha! YER the one responsible for this mess, huh Elissa?
Elissa. . . . .i say when i want to be finished with a project, and unless i'm stressed out and feeling pressured,
Elissa. . . . .that is when i finish
Elissa. . . . .i plead guilty with an extremely good excuse, your honor
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WhiteTiger. . . . .no alibis... yer sentenced to eternity ;)
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Elissa. . . . .hahaha
RevRandy. . . . .and do we all need to have the same time to function together, and who or what decides?
WhiteTiger. . . . .i doubt we are operating at thee same rate or by the same scale... nothing else really synchs between two individuals, I see no reason time would be an exception
firespirit. . . . .at one time in ancient history man used the sun dial to tell time..
RevRandy. . . . .but in fact, it is now time for a short break (10 minutes) while some of us get some refreshments -- we will be back
RevRandy. . . . .in a time period defined by standards to be about 10
RevRandy. . . . .but hang in here - and keep chatting
Elissa. . . . .yes, fs... finish your thought?
wistful. . . . .time what is time ?
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RevRandy. . . . .wistful - the very question!!!!!!
Kath. . . . .it is bliss when we do synch, "synch happens"
Elissa. . . . .bbbbbbbrrrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkk
WhiteTiger. . . . .time is what we use to decide which events we are no longer gonna try to alter
wistful. . . . .something I either have to much of or not enough of
Kath. . . . .yes WT
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Kath. . . . .still we get to alter
RevRandy. . . . .FS - our memorial garden has a sundial in it - but it is in the middle of the woods, so time there is always eternal :-)
*** RevRandy is now known as RevRandybeb
WhiteTiger. . . . .beb?
*** RevRandybeb is now known as RevRandybrb
* WhiteTiger is beginning to covet RR's drugs
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .scrolling through rr's memory lane :)
RevRandybrb. . . . .don't covet them .... but they surely cut the problem
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
RevRandybrb. . . . .two weeks of intense shoulder and arm pain gone
its. . . . .can you talk to heaven on this computer
wistful. . . . .sure go for it
RevRandybrb. . . . .what is heaven?
suwan. . . . .If you've got heaven, we've got a direct line to it!
its. . . . .there no phones in heaven
WhiteTiger. . . . .its- ya can talk to heaven in any medium... getting replies ya recognise is always problematic, though
wistful. . . . .heaven needs no phone line
t_kahle. . . . .You don't think there is a heaven Rev.?
RevRandybrb. . . . .be back with the heaven question after the break
t_kahle. . . . .alrighty
*** RevRandybrb is now known as RevRandy
*** Elissa_brb is now known as Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .ah
Elissa. . . . .ok let's talk about randy now... ooopps
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .ok...go for it!
RevRandy. . . . .be good, please
Hypernoodle. . . . .who?
wistful. . . . .time is a figment of our imagination
*** RevRandy is now known as spacecadet
Hypernoodle. . . . .there ya go!
Elissa. . . . .ok gang, let's begin again
its. . . . .i have too much time now
t_kahle. . . . .too much time? Yikes, I can't imagine.
WhiteTiger. . . . .time is a convenient fiction... we can't hold it all at once, so we're allowed to use interval to chop it up into bite size chunks
Hypernoodle. . . . .Are ya gonna start Elissa or do we get to?
Elissa. . . . . 2,11"About probable realities. It's a math concept. At any point in time there
Elissa. . . . . 2,11are infinite probable realities. We just know one. Here's an image: a point
Elissa. . . . . 2,11of light...just one, not thousands. From that point, the light goes out in
Elissa. . . . . 2,11many directions. One probable reality is that it lights this page; another
Elissa. . . . . 2,11is that it is seen from Mars; another is that it is swallowed up by a black
Elissa. . . . . 2,11hole, etc. All true, all equally probable; but in your existence you follow
Elissa. . . . . 2,11just one strand of possibilities. Sequence, not time. You see ABCDE, but
Elissa. . . . . 2,11there also could be a ZYXW or a REDQ or a NJHG or a ASKU5. All sequences,
Elissa. . . . . 2,11all equally possible and probable--even if the sequence is ABCDE. It's not
Elissa. . . . . 2,11about time. We have probable selves.
Elissa. . . . . 2,11
Elissa. . . . . 2,11"Here's another one. In numbers you have evens and odds; all numbers are one
Elissa. . . . . 2,11or the other, in your thinking. But maybe there are others, which your
Elissa. . . . . 2,11thinking doesn't know, but which are just as real. Just because you have ten
Elissa. . . . . 2,11fingers doesn't make ten the base of all realities. It adds to All That
Elissa. . . . . 2,11Is--not personal, but collective. And some day, so to speak, we may unite
Elissa. . . . . 2,11with a parallel self that took a road not taken by us. We move in realities
Elissa. . . . . 2,11with many of 'us'es but we don't notice because most don't look like us
Elissa. . . . . 2,11physically, only spiritually. Ponder that...or not." (4/20/99 - B#29)
Elissa. . . . .here's another example of what i hear Rikkity
Elissa. . . . .saying here about probable and parallel realities...
Elissa. . . . . if you
Elissa. . . . .are planning a road trip, you may look at several different
Elissa. . . . .routes--and call AAA for advice on the best one--and then make
Elissa. . . . .a choice depending on your criteria...
Elissa. . . . .one route might be faster,
Elissa. . . . .one more scenic, one have better restaurants, etc.
Elissa. . . . .visualize your field as a map and your life as a journey...
Elissa. . . . .and then imagine that although you chose one route, other
Elissa. . . . ."you's" chose the other ones--and many of the routes intersect
Elissa. . . . .at various points--all arriving at the same ultimate
Elissa. . . . .destination, but all having different "views" and experiences
Elissa. . . . .along the way...
Elissa. . . . .all available possibilities becoming realized.
WhiteTiger. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .has anyone seen the movie "sliding doors"?
WhiteTiger. . . . .nope
Hypernoodle. . . . .no
firespirit. . . . .Yes..was a great movie..
Elissa. . . . .go rent it... it's about all of this
firespirit. . . . .I seen it three times..
Elissa. . . . .it's very well done, isn't it fs
Elissa. . . . .so, your thoughts, questions?
firespirit. . . . .Yes...it's Awwessome..many things to ponder while watching it...it's great...for a deep thinker as I.
t_kahle. . . . .This sounds like Plato? No?
Hypernoodle. . . . .If one spirit goes into different parallel lives, why is it that some remember other lives?
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firespirit. . . . .Plato is great as well...
Elissa. . . . .plato, t? in what way?
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, the fabled "higher self" is simply the basic self that does not limit to one path, but oversees the whole sheaf of probabilities
Elissa. . . . .wt, you know i always had trouble with that concept but i think you may be onto something there
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- it's part of what I recall from the times I have been "whole"
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Elissa. . . . .hey sharon :)
Kath. . . . .((((sharon)))))
t_kahle. . . . .Well, maybe I'm mixed up. It's been a while, but wasn't he the one who thought we were all just tiny mirror images of God, each of us having a different experience.
Sharon. . . . .hi elissa, kath
Elissa. . . . .t, that's really interesting... always meant to read plato again
spacecadet. . . . .that sounds like the idea that we all see/mirror one facet of a being with infinite facets
spacecadet. . . . .and that we each also have many facets, not infinite perhaps, but many more than we usually recognize
Elissa. . . . .yes, but apparently the "us"es are not all identical
firespirit. . . . .No wonder so many people are confused..
Elissa. . . . .different experiences create different learnings
spacecadet. . . . .unless we take the whole as the identity -- and then we are all part of an identical whole
Elissa. . . . .yes
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Elissa. . . . .ok, let's move on to fields and prophecy, shall we?
firespirit. . . . .Cool...been waiting for this one..
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, "spirit' is the basic pattern of our self... not our local identity, but the pattern of our essential awareness... any place in all that is which contains an expression of that pattern, "we" are
Elissa. . . . .this is a long one, and i want to break it up into bite size pieces
* WhiteTiger shuts up
Elissa. . . . .wt, i'm beginning to understand you lol
firespirit. . . . .lol...
Hypernoodle. . . . .oh no!
Elissa. . . . .very good insight!
WhiteTiger. . . . .you poor kid!
Elissa. . . . .lol
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Elissa. . . . . 2,11"So, I foresee we will talk about prophecy. I think I will have three things
Elissa. . . . . 2,11to say.
Elissa. . . . . 2,11
Elissa. . . . . 2,11"1. In a web of probable realities, as long as the prophecy is related to
Elissa. . . . . 2,11some piece of central reality, then it will come true somewhere in the web.
Elissa. . . . . 2,11If you hear something predicted and say, ‘no way,' then it probably won't
Elissa. . . . . 2,11happen. But if it sounds at all possible then don't think it is wrong if it
Elissa. . . . . 2,11doesn't happen in your present perceptual reality. Hey, if it's in your
Elissa. . . . . 2,11field it is still true. Ok. Like I say I am going to hit a triple into right
Elissa. . . . . 2,11field but I hit one into left. Still in your field, ha. Not at all coming
Elissa. . . . . 2,11from left field. So, that's 1. Prophecy must relate to your field but not
Elissa. . . . . 2,11necessarily your current perspective. Ok...
Elissa. . . . .now that we've talked about probability and parallelism, does
Elissa. . . . .this make sense?
Elissa. . . . .just because something that is predicted doesn't happen for me,
Elissa. . . . .doesn't mean that somewhere in my field it hasn't become reality.
firespirit. . . . .I understand
Elissa. . . . .cool :)
Hypernoodle. . . . .Tiger must......he is typing away
WhiteTiger. . . . .and the trick part of that is, if it is a possibility, it is somewhere a reality... cuz if it is possible, it was made so by the hand of the creator when it was all set in motion
WhiteTiger. . . . .ALL possibilities have that connection to "central reality" imo
Elissa. . . . .we'll talk more about that soon, wt
t_kahle. . . . .What is "my field?
t_kahle. . . . .Don't mean to be so obtuse. :0)
Elissa. . . . .your field is your field of perceptions, t
Hypernoodle. . . . .fields, rings, systems = abstract algebra
Elissa. . . . .all that is part of you, and the way you relate to all that is (or something like that)
Elissa. . . . .let's go on:
Elissa. . . . . 2,11"2. Many prophecies, once they are in your field, become self-fulfilling.
Elissa. . . . . 2,11Why. Because you look for signs and signals and unconsciously shape choices
Elissa. . . . . 2,11in their direction, and also because you stop looking for further outcomes
Elissa. . . . . 2,11once the predicted occurs. So maybe the prophecy is only a minor step but
Elissa. . . . . 2,11you take it as a total omen. And...
Elissa. . . . .self-fulfilling prophecy: i predict that little Joey will become
Elissa. . . . .an artist...
Elissa. . . . .i tell Joey's mom...
Elissa. . . . .she begins to focus on Joey's
Elissa. . . . .drawings and art projects, praising him enthusiastically for his
Elissa. . . . .talent...
firespirit. . . . .and he becomes an artist..
Elissa. . . . .Joey, encouraged by his mom's praise, loving art, and loving the
Elissa. . . . .attention he gets, focuses more and more on his artwork...
Elissa. . . . .mom shows
Elissa. . . . .his art to others who also focus on this aspect of Joey's abilities,
Elissa. . . . .and guess what happens?
Elissa. . . . .right, fs lol... not always, but you get the idea?
WhiteTiger. . . . .ummmm, joey goes to work at McDonalds?
Elissa. . . . .only to make money, wt lol
Tom. . . . .Joey's suddenly quit.
firespirit. . . . .that could happen too. if he doesn't sell anything...
Hypernoodle. . . . .Drawing Happy Meals stuff :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol hyper
Elissa. . . . .there ya go!
Moon. . . . .lol hypr
Elissa. . . . .but the possibility was there... the focus determined whether it would be realized
firespirit. . . . .understand
RevRandy. . . . .joey designs ballots for Palm Beach county Florida?
firespirit. . . . .LOL RR
Elissa. . . . . 2,11"3. And this could be the hardest of all. The introduction of an idea into
Elissa. . . . . 2,11your system alters the system. And I will pose this in language for
Elissa. . . . . 2,11Dad. 1812: if someone said you could someday travel at 100 mph that would be a
Elissa. . . . . 2,11prediction. But the very notion made its reality possible, so by 1900 it was
Elissa. . . . . 2,11possible and trains could go that fast. It may take time but that which is
Elissa. . . . . 2,11predictable is then possible--but not before. And now we have many railroad
Elissa. . . . . 2,11prophecies. They call them timetables, but they are nothing more than
Elissa. . . . . 2,11prophecies of what will occur on any given day--more or less. Once the field
Elissa. . . . . 2,11of being admits the possibility then prophecy becomes predictive reality.
Elissa. . . . . 2,11And that's all I have to say about that.
Elissa. . . . .before something is predicted, it is not possible...
Elissa. . . . . opening up
Elissa. . . . .a possibility by predicting it changes the system because it
firespirit. . . . .theory before development..
Elissa. . . . .introduces a new way of thinking about something...
WhiteTiger. . . . .4 minute mile :)
Elissa. . . . .so, if
Elissa. . . . .i predict that in the future communication between those
Elissa. . . . .who are physical and those who are spiritual will be accepted
Elissa. . . . .by the mainstream of our society,
Elissa. . . . .that introduces a possibility
Elissa. . . . .and--if those who hear it think it sounds at least
Elissa. . . . .somewhat plausible--other ideas, imaginings, and actions begin
Elissa. . . . .to form that will make that possibility reality.
Elissa. . . . .ok, there's more, but let's ponder all this for awhile... what do you think?
firespirit. . . . .Yes..I believe this to be true..
firespirit. . . . .When I first spoke of conversations with my dad, family thought I was crazy but they now have had experiences and they believe..
Elissa. . . . .good example, fs! you may have made it possible for them to believe
firespirit. . . . .Yes..I did..cause I asked for help from the spirit world..I prayed for it..
Elissa. . . . .how's that for an example of how important it is for all of us to speak our own truth
firespirit. . . . .I also wanted my family to know that my dad was alive well, living in another form..
WhiteTiger. . . . .in athletics, for many decades it was taught that it was not humanly possible to run the mile in under four minutes... and no one did... then one australian did it, and *poof*, within months four others had also, who had not been able to before
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Elissa. . . . .yes!!! exactly
RevRandy. . . . .and in physics, immediately after Einstein and a few others published papers, many could see what had been impossible to see a week months before
Elissa. . . . .yep yep yep
firespirit. . . . .Yes..
WhiteTiger. . . . .yup.. the concept must appear before the referrent is recognisable
Elissa. . . . .so what implications do you see here?
RevRandy. . . . .but, let's get personal -- there are concepts we cannot hold until after we have allowed their possibility
WhiteTiger. . . . .implication: there are a bazillion dormant possibilities awaiting their chance on this stage
firespirit. . . . .one mind can change the way we think...
RevRandy. . . . .our openness makes them visible, not possible
Elissa. . . . .good ones, wt and fs!
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- and most often, the allowing of those possibilities involves letting go of cherished security blankies
Elissa. . . . .randy, i'm not sure what you mean
Elissa. . . . .are you disagreeing with her majesty the moo? lol
firespirit. . . . .If you open your mind you have tremendous possibilities..
RevRandy. . . . .O yes! - the possibiities are infinitely there --- but we have to be open to them
Elissa. . . . .ok
WhiteTiger. . . . .I think RR means the possibility was always there.. we just have to wake up and see it
Elissa. . . . .o but was it?
firespirit. . . . .Yes...
RevRandy. . . . .now, it is a synergistic relationship between potential and realization, in which the infinite "yes" is echoed in our own "maybe"
Elissa. . . . .“the very notion made its reality possible, so by 1900 it was
Elissa. . . . .possible and trains could go that fast. It may take time but that which is
Elissa. . . . .predictable is then possible--but not before.”
Elissa. . . . ."that which is predictable is then possible--but not before"
firespirit. . . . .understood
Elissa. . . . .so, let me give you the rest of this PtoP before time runs out lol
Moon. . . . .As RR said we might know the formula but the changes might trick us.
RevRandy. . . . .the field of possibility is infinite, only we have to decide how much of that field we will use to play out the games of our envisioning
firespirit. . . . .games cute...RR
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR :)
RevRandy. . . . .time? running out????
Elissa. . . . . 2,11"Prophets are just people better tuned to the reality in which they exist,
Elissa. . . . . 2,11so their visions are more likely to become realised. Prophets are not
Elissa. . . . . 2,11connected to a higher plane but more connected to this one... and I meant his
Elissa. . . . . 2,11one--as in, the one in which a person is. Actually, prophets are specialists
Elissa. . . . . 2,11because they can focus the probable ‘here' without the interferences of
Elissa. . . . . 2,11‘there.' Wackos can't do that and they then give off visions that are just
Elissa. . . . . 2,11wacky. Their prophecies may be true, but not here. But again, the test is:
Elissa. . . . . 2,11Does it become even a little possible in your thinking or is it just wacko.
Elissa. . . . . 2,11It could be possible in some people's thinking and wacko to others. Aha. It
Elissa. . . . . 2,11has to do with your field... or his field or her field or its field or our
Elissa. . . . . 2,11field or their field. You think the Jewish prophets made sense to the
Elissa. . . . . 2,11Canaanites. I don't theeenk so.
Elissa. . . . . 2,11
Elissa. . . . . 2,11"And it's not relative. If it were relative it would have some relation, but
Elissa. . . . . 2,11we're talking separation of specific areas of field here. It is all part of
Elissa. . . . . 2,11one field but not as we can know and understand yet. We still have
Elissa. . . . . 2,11separation because we still have gaps of understanding, and will until our
Elissa. . . . . 2,11entity is one with everything. Hold the mustard." (3/12/2000 - B#36)
Elissa. . . . .ok, free for all time :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .what we're talking is parameters, in the mathematical sense.. delimiting values of the active field
firespirit. . . . .Some people are more connected than others, and can see and feel things..
firespirit. . . . .They have a sense of who they are and what there destination is..
Elissa. . . . .we limit our own parameters, wt?
RevRandy. . . . .all prophesy is within a context .... and outside that context it may appear as madness
WhiteTiger. . . . .kinda like einsteinian relativity may be cool in it's place, but it doesn't negate the value of newtonian physics.. the two are functional in the same matrix, but have little overlap
Hypernoodle. . . . .Whose context?
firespirit. . . . .Yes..they may seem mad...
RevRandy. . . . .exactly, hyper - whose context? When you are in a system, you rarely can see that, and your rarely see the limits of the system
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- methinks we have no choice but to limit our fields... there is too much
Elissa. . . . .interesting example, wt... one worth pondering i think
RevRandy. . . . .you mistake the system for the whole
RevRandy. . . . .actually newtonian and einsteinian have many overlaps if your world moves very slowly
Elissa. . . . .hmmmm... i think as our awareness expands, our ability to encompass more of our field does as well
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- good one! all essential insights come from *external* perspectives
firespirit. . . . .Seen the movie" The matrix" if not see it..
WhiteTiger. . . . .fs- "there is no spoon" ;)
firespirit. . . . .LOL Tiger....
firespirit. . . . .I bought the movie...can watch it over and over again...it's great..
Elissa. . . . .we bought that one recently, fs
Elissa. . . . .i hear wheels turning out there lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .it fascinates me that the flick came to so many of the inescapable conclusions, but began from the notion of "lets make the ultimate VR/kung fu flick"
RevRandy. . . . .back on the theme of time, the tribes who measure time by seasons and the tribes who measure time by milliseconds, one to plant and hunt, and the other to explore space, both have the same potential for finding life meaningful.
RevRandy. . . . .time is not a measure of meaning
Elissa. . . . .true rr
firespirit. . . . .true
WhiteTiger. . . . .I think when ya begin to really question yer perceptions, ya have to end up in those places, sooner or later
RevRandy. . . . .it is simply a tool
Elissa. . . . .content is the measure of meaning
firespirit. . . . .Yes...
RevRandy. . . . .but so many invest more into it
RevRandy. . . . .I have one last, little PtoP I want to share:

RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Yesterday will always seem more certain than tomorrow. But both are equal
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2realities." (11/25/99 - B#33)
firespirit. . . . .k
WhiteTiger. . . . .ooooooooo
Elissa. . . . .ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
WhiteTiger. . . . .gotta disagree with that one
Elissa. . . . .uh oh
WhiteTiger. . . . .I've seen yesterday change too many times
RevRandy. . . . .We assume that the known, or the already, is more certain than the one that is not yet
Elissa. . . . .the operative word is "seem"
suwan. . . . .hmmmm Rev ask the presidential candidate if the yesterday is real
suwan. . . . .and what that reality is
firespirit. . . . .life's illusions...
RevRandy. . . . .good WT - that is the sense I was thinking of -- that history is no more factual than possibility
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firespirit. . . . .this election is like watching a movie..
Elissa. . . . .and his response would be: huh
RevRandy. . . . .And I give the state of mind to Nader ... with 0 electoral votes
suwan. . . . .what I find interesting is that each one or each group has its own firmly held reality
Hypernoodle. . . . .:)
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- my brother and I have both seen "what was" become something other than what we experienced.. it seems the lines of progression are not immutably fixed
firespirit. . . . .Right suwan
Elissa. . . . .yes, suwan, hard to tell whether it's their reality or their projected image though
RevRandy. . . . .sure, my brother and I, living in the same house, have different histories of that experience
firespirit. . . . .Yes because everyone's perception is different..
RevRandy. . . . .and I think even if the future becomes the same for us, it will be also be different
suwan. . . . .yes Rev my sister who is 18 months younger than I am had a different childhood than I did
firespirit. . . . .my sister too...suwan..
Elissa. . . . .and our memory of our past changes as we do
RevRandy. . . . .I have worked on committees where some will tell us that time was too short for the task, and others asked why it took so long
WhiteTiger. . . . .R- what I mean is, we both clearly and independently recall certain events in the "real world", yet those things seem to have never been in this particular timeline
RevRandy. . . . .but, speaking of time ....
Elissa. . . . .and this chat is now taking its place in the past...
Elissa. . . . .thank you all for a stimulating discussion!!!
Hypernoodle. . . . .night all :)
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RevRandy. . . . .it is time, by my ancient clock (that gift to my great grandparents on their wedding in 1890) has chimed in
firespirit. . . . .Time to go already...time flys when your having fun. :(
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 11,12!Elissa rainbow.mid 12,11 :o)
RevRandy. . . . .and said "bong, ./...///
Elissa. . . . .goodnight everyone, and may time be your servant and not your master!
RevRandy. . . . .thank you all for all the good thoughts ... and, yes, I am feeling much better now....
RevRandy. . . . .like that E
suwan. . . . .night all thanks e and rr
Elissa. . . . .lol let's go home, randy
firespirit. . . . .Good night all....and as always this is great!
RevRandy. . . . .sure
firespirit. . . . .(((((((room))))))))))
Elissa. . . . .(((((((fs)))))))
RevRandy. . . . .home is where the heart is ...
Moon. . . . .Good Night all. Thanks for the insights:)
WhiteTiger. . . . .another fun night in bedlam ;)
Elissa. . . . .nite moon :)
Elissa. . . . .hahaha and you helped, wt :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .thx RR, Elissa :)
Elissa. . . . .nite all
Session Close: Sun Nov 12 23:05:32 2000