log112600

11/26/2000 - THE RAINBOW REVISITED:
PURPOSE OF LIFE, CONNECTION, AND THE EVOLUTION OF THE SOUL

Session Start: Sun Nov 26 20:38:29 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"Purpose of Life, Connection, and the Evolution of the Soul" 2,9Sunday 2,11November 26 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker, M.Ed. (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

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Elissa. . . . .hey everyone!
Peaspopsey. . . . .hi
Elissa. . . . .hi peas :)
Peaspopsey. . . . .:-)
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RevRandy. . . . .hey TF
Elissa. . . . .hey tf :)
TF88. . . . .hey o :)
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Elissa. . . . .hey wt :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa :)
TF88. . . . .hi WT :)
RevRandy. . . . .hey WT
RevRandy. . . . .welcome to SP everybody
Elissa. . . . .welcome!
RevRandy. . . . .another fine Sunday night of pondering together
WhiteTiger. . . . .hiya RR :)
RevRandy. . . . .As I look around the room I see that there are a few new nicks here
RevRandy. . . . .so maybe we need to run an little intro
Elissa. . . . .so i'll get the infamous intro and our regulars can sing along :)
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Elissa. . . . .hey kath :)
Elissa. . . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa. . . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa. . . . .Williamsburg, VA. I am a writer, medium, and counselor with
Elissa. . . . .a Master's degree (M.Ed.) in Community Counseling.
Elissa. . . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa. . . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa. . . . .on August 20, 1995. She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa. . . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa. . . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa. . . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for the
Elissa. . . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa. . . . .Ponder. It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa. . . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa. . . . .and death, of connection, and of our place in the universe.
Elissa. . . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa. . . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives. We are here to
Elissa. . . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore what it means
Elissa. . . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this journey.
Elissa. . . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa. . . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa. . . . .or email Randy (RevRandy@spiritualpersistence.com)
Elissa. . . . .or me (ebb@spiritualpersistence.com) any time.
Elissa. . . . .And please let us know if you would like to be on our email list
Elissa. . . . .for chat notices and Points to Ponder.
Elissa. . . . .Thanks for coming... and again, welcome!
Elissa. . . . .Does anyone have any questions before we begin?
WhiteTiger. . . . .yeah, where's the bean dip?
Peaspopsey. . . . .?
* Elissa throws the bean dip over to wt... splat
WhiteTiger. . . . .Ignore me peaspopsey... I'm the resident smartaleck
Elissa. . . . .that's why we love him :)
RevRandy. . . . .ah, bean dip ..... now that is another matter!!!!
Peaspopsey. . . . .I lost my daughter 3 months back
RevRandy. . . . .(((((((((((((Peas)))))))))))))))))
Elissa. . . . .((((((peas))))))
WhiteTiger. . . . .tough period peaspopsey
Peaspopsey. . . . .after a religious ceremony after 3 days of her death
Peaspopsey. . . . .Till then i was crying continuously
Elissa. . . . .of course you were
RevRandy. . . . .can relate to that
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Peaspopsey. . . . .I felt as if she was talking to me
Peaspopsey. . . . .consoling & telling me things about THERE ,
Elissa. . . . .that's wonderful!
Peaspopsey. . . . .confusion was that she was calling me DAD while she always addressed me as Pop Popsey or papa
Peaspopsey. . . . .Yesterday I saw her diary
Peaspopsey. . . . .Not a good thing to do
Elissa. . . . .she probably won't mind now
Peaspopsey. . . . .& there everywhere she had written me as DAD
Elissa. . . . .wow!!! so that was confirmation for you
Peaspopsey. . . . .It hit me like a bolt
RevRandy. . . . .I would think so
Elissa. . . . .i can imagine... we've had many bolts around here :)
Peaspopsey. . . . .Till yesterday I thought it was my conscious mind tryng to console me
Peaspopsey. . . . .& not her voice because she never addressed me as DAD
Elissa. . . . .thank you for sharing that peas
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Elissa. . . . .hey moon :)
* moon : Hello everyone!
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Elissa. . . . .hey nancy :)
NancyM. . . . .hey Elissa love
RevRandy. . . . .Before we go further, I would like to begin our session
RevRandy. . . . .with our usual invocation
RevRandy. . . . .some simple, but profound words, given to us by Rikkity
RevRandy. . . . .please join in the spirit of these words:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And guided in all ways gracious.
RevRandy. . . . .Amen
Elissa. . . . .amen~
moon. . . . .Amen
WhiteTiger. . . . .aho
TF88. . . . .peace
Zuzu. . . . .amen
NancyM. . . . .amen
kath. . . . .amen
SUZANNE. . . . .Amen
Elissa. . . . .our topic tonight is "purpose of life, connection, and the evolution of the soul"...
Elissa. . . . .just the small stuff lol
Elissa. . . . .and we have a lot to share,
Elissa. . . . .but first Rikkity told us to divide the chat into 3 sections
Elissa. . . . .and at the beginning of each one to ask you a question...
Elissa. . . . .so, the first question for you is:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13What is the purpose of life?
Elissa. . . . .what do you think the purpose of life is?
WhiteTiger. . . . .purpose of life: unknowable, connection: unavoidable, evolution of the soul: problematic ;)
NancyM. . . . .Plastic .... LMHO
Elissa. . . . .hahahaha.... no no no that's what you go into after you graduate
NancyM. . . . .lolol
Elissa. . . . .and it's not bean dip either lol
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WhiteTiger. . . . .I don't worry about it... imo, the purpose is what it is, and is unavoidable... I don't figure the creator made any errors in setting things up the way intended
moon. . . . .To be is the purpose of living:)
NancyM. . . . .life is as it is
Elissa. . . . .cool :)
Elissa. . . . .wow, you guys are on our wavelength tonight!
NancyM. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .any other thoughts that may be different?
* WhiteTiger shifts half a cycle, just to be different
Elissa. . . . .i knew i could count on you, wt
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .it's a calling ;)
NancyM. . . . .love is...... as it is....
RevRandy. . . . .I wonder - is the purpose existence, fulfillment, pleasure, chaos????
NancyM. . . . .existence????
Peaspopsey. . . . .or is there a purpose
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, the purpose is bigger than our eyes can see, our minds comprehend, or our hands grasp
Elissa. . . . .ok, well then here comes a PtoP (point to ponder):
Elissa. . . . .and then i will give you my own ponderings about it
Elissa. . . . .and we can discuss or agree or argue or whatever :)
Elissa. . . . .(by the way, the words in quotes or colors are from Rikkity)
NancyM. . . . .indeed
Elissa. . . . . 2,13purpose of life:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"So, here goes. Pay attention. There'll be a test. What is the purpose of
Elissa. . . . . 2,13all this, you ask. I will tell you. There is none, and yet there is one.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13It's about the process we are in, ever becoming and being. Each level seems
Elissa. . . . . 2,13to have its purpose, but overall not really.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"One could say the purpose is to prepare to move on. Well maybe, but the
Elissa. . . . . 2,13alternative is to cease being in that way, so if there is no choice is there
NancyM. . . . .being......
Elissa. . . . . 2,13a purpose. I think not. But we do perceive purpose at every moment of every
Elissa. . . . . 2,13level--not because it's there, but because we want it to be there. But
Elissa. . . . . 2,13overall there is a grander notion. Whitman said it was to be on the road:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13'Afoot and light-hearted I take to the road.' Buddha spoke of the path,
Elissa. . . . . 2,13Jesus of the way. You see, it is about being in the stream, not where the
Elissa. . . . . 2,13stream is going.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"People keep asking 'why' and 'where to,' but the question is more simple:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13'am I?' meaning that 'am I in the process of being'--not having been or
Elissa. . . . . 2,13going to be, but being. If there is a grand purpose to all, it will be in
Elissa. . . . . 2,13the all-ness that becomes and is one ultimately. It will be the sum of all
Elissa. . . . . 2,13the processes, not the product of the processes. It is contained in the act
Elissa. . . . . 2,13of being, not created by being or doing.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"So now the test: A train leaves New York at 1pm. Another leaves Washington
Elissa. . . . . 2,13at 2pm. What train is the right one. It's the one you're on. All others
Elissa. . . . . 2,13don't matter; their destinations and speed and accommodations are
Elissa. . . . . 2,13irrelevant. It's the train or plane or life you're on that counts; and it's
Elissa. . . . . 2,13the journey and the acquaintances and learnings and rememberings that count.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13It's the adding to the sum total that counts. Ponder that." (11/18/96 - V#23)
Elissa. . . . .the purpose is the process...
Elissa. . . . .here's an intriguing thought: "if there is no choice is there
Elissa. . . . .a purpose"...
NancyM. . . . .and that life is OUR choices eh
Elissa. . . . .if we cannot consciously choose what we will become
Elissa. . . . .in a larger spiritual sense, then it would seem to follow that
Elissa. . . . .our task in life is to become more fully who we are--to be on our
Elissa. . . . .way toward developing every facet of our being...
Elissa. . . . .in the "act of being"
Elissa. . . . .we add the growth and development and fulfillment of all that we are
Elissa. . . . .to the sum total...
Peaspopsey. . . . .sounds nice, just sounds
Elissa. . . . .this is not "being" in a solitary search for
Elissa. . . . .perfection or individual salvation or competition for a choice spot
NancyM. . . . .right on
Elissa. . . . .sitting for eternity next to Jesus in heaven, and it is also not
Elissa. . . . .total loss of self into nirvana or undifferentiated universal
Elissa. . . . .essence...
Elissa. . . . .it is "being" who we are in connection--or relationship--
Elissa. . . . .to the whole...
Elissa. . . . .our souls are never lost or dissolved,
Elissa. . . . .AND our souls are never separated from All That Is...
NancyM. . . . .one......
Elissa. . . . .each of our
Elissa. . . . .souls is an integral, beautiful, worthwhile, and beloved part of
Elissa. . . . .the universal whole--becoming who we are and, at the same time,
Elissa. . . . .more than we are.
NancyM. . . . .: }
Elissa. . . . .so, those are my thoughts on this... how about yours?
Elissa. . . . .we know nancy's already LOL
NancyM. . . . .amen sister
NancyM. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .thank you, sister!!!
NancyM. . . . .indeed
NancyM. . . . .my deepest pleasure
WhiteTiger. . . . .mmmm... I still have a problem with that bit... it strikes me the same as asserting that each platelet in yer bloodstream is you...
RevRandy. . . . .WT - but would you be you without even one of them?
Elissa. . . . .wt, if each of us is not on our way to becoming the same, how is that problematic for you?
NancyM. . . . .we are one.. my opinion.....however u is
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- of course I would... I was me well before I put on this meat machine :)
NancyM. . . . .indeed wt
Elissa. . . . .were you the same you you are now?
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WhiteTiger. . . . .yep :)
NancyM. . . . .kewl
Elissa. . . . .you haven't grown or changed or developed?
NancyM. . . . .one spirit wt...
WhiteTiger. . . . .Tiger has... and the mask that was in place before this one.. but *I* have not changed
Elissa. . . . .ok
NancyM. . . . .i gots that
NancyM. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .so you can change and remain the same... good trick!
NancyM. . . . .I am because I say I am ?
NancyM. . . . .rofl
RevRandy. . . . .but isn't that the concept of enhancement? - that one can become something more without having to given up what one has been
NancyM. . . . .: }
WhiteTiger. . . . .no big trick involved Elissa... ya can put on a stage show with just finger puppets... then move to a hand puppet... it's still you putting on the show
Elissa. . . . .then wt, what would be the purpose of being in the show?
RevRandy. . . . .and is there a show if no one watches?
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- see my "I don't worry about it" post *G*
Elissa. . . . .rofl! no problem, mon
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
* WhiteTiger shuts up... didn't intend to do a monologue
RevRandy. . . . .well, just to cloud the waters a but more, I am going to add in another PtoP from Rikkity - ready?
Elissa. . . . .yep
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13"When you are whole, you might still combine with someone who was not
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13because they are forced in, or force themselves, or are just big liars; or
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13you think you see it all, but no. And then guess what, it's not just they
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13who are unfulfilled and not appropriate--it's also you. It takes a whole
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13entity not knowing to create a black hole. That's part of the reason for
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13such evil. It's not just one bad element, which would just be a problem; but
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13it's a whole entity of bad elements, which is the pits. Remember that being
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13fulfilled doesn't mean being everything, and in a stable entity the
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13strengths of one complement the strengths of another. But in a entity gone
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13 2,13bad, no strength complements no strength. Got it. Each element is not bad or
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13evil, just not fulfilled; so the cumulative energy deficit is enormous.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13Whoa, that was more than I planned to say. Hey, a PtoP." (6/20/99 -V#43)
RevRandy. . . . .one of the central concepts that Rikkity has been trying
RevRandy. . . . .to share with us is that our personal journeys to fulfillment
RevRandy. . . . .are paths toward being able to join meaningfully with other spiritual entities
RevRandy. . . . .to form even more complex spiritual entities
RevRandy. . . . .that is the enhancement I was talking about
RevRandy. . . . .of how we become ourselves fully,
RevRandy. . . . .and then can, in that fullness,
RevRandy. . . . .connect in meaningful ways
RevRandy. . . . .with others
RevRandy. . . . .to create spiritual existence which is only within our hopes right now
RevRandy. . . . .now here comes a PtoP that challenges some of this -
RevRandy. . . . .what if I (I should be so lucky)
RevRandy. . . . .get my act together
RevRandy. . . . .and am fulfilled at this spiritual level
RevRandy. . . . .does this mean that I will automatically, intelligently, connect with likewise fulfilled beings
WhiteTiger. . . . .the catch to "becoming ourselves fully" is that the first step is "know thy self"... and we all got way too much hidden under the stairwell and buried in the basement to swing that one
Elissa. . . . .speak for yourself, wt lol
RevRandy. . . . .Ah - WT - so the trick of repeated tries at this thing called life
RevRandy. . . . .is to find ways our from under the stairs, and up from the basement
RevRandy. . . . .into the open, unafraid, willing to face whatever comes
NancyM. . . . .hmmmm
Elissa. . . . .it's called trust
RevRandy. . . . .it is not that only good will come,
RevRandy. . . . .but that we will feel equal to what does come, NO MATTER WHAT THAT MAY BE
WhiteTiger. . . . .heck, the ways are there in the open to be seen.. but the structure of this place is locked into "feel good" mode, and that cycle obscures things
NancyM. . . . .obscures??
RevRandy. . . . .I know, from my own personal experience
RevRandy. . . . .that my learning
RevRandy. . . . .has not all come from the "feel good" mode
RevRandy. . . . .I do not seek out times of pain, or loss
RevRandy. . . . .but I now see that to flee them for the "comfort" of the less fearsome times
RevRandy. . . . .will only mean that I keep myself from knowing myself in its totality
WhiteTiger. . . . .sure nancy.. "feel good" inevitably boils down to the "what's in it for me" ethic... and that is a dead end path, imo
NancyM. . . . .how can one choose to have their choices obscured ?
Elissa. . . . .amen for da rev :)
RevRandy. . . . .:-)
WhiteTiger. . . . .ditto that one Elissa ;)
NancyM. . . . .: }
Elissa. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .OK - try this scenario -- which do you want to do - go down the street for ice cream or sit home and talk with grandpa about approaching death?
RevRandy. . . . .but which, in the long term view, may be the more fulfilling choice?
moon. . . . .Both
NancyM. . . . .grandpa.... every time
Elissa. . . . .ice cream and then bring some to grandpa's
WhiteTiger. . . . ."know thyself" means being willing to root around under the stairwell and in the basement... see ALL of it (imo)
RevRandy. . . . .if you always choose any one path, you will never know
Sugah. . . . .good answer Elissa
Elissa. . . . .ty sugah
Sugah. . . . .;-)
NancyM. . . . .askin if he wants some ice cream tho......
RevRandy. . . . .don't forget the syrup
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol RR
Elissa. . . . .if he doesn't want it i get to eat it all lol
NancyM. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .ahhh, but what if the old boy has a sweet tooth? ;)
NancyM. . . . .give him all
kath. . . . .get ice cream if you want it, sit by grand dad if that is your desire, make time for both
Elissa. . . . .good one, kath
NancyM. . . . .go for it all
Elissa. . . . .but that's a good point randy is desperately trying to make lol
RevRandy. . . . .but life presents us these opportunities all the time, and the specific, one-time choice of opportunity is not the issue
RevRandy. . . . .it is the pattern - do we take only the opportunities what we think are immediately good, or will we opt for some of the tough ones
WhiteTiger. . . . .I'd honestly have to say I'd sit with the old fart... that is a one time opportunity.. ice cream is always gonna be there
Elissa. . . . .not if it melts
WhiteTiger. . . . .hmmmm.. it's still ice cream if it melts... as much as we're us after we toss aside the meat and change to something else
RevRandy. . . . .If we were able to get to fulfillment for ourselves, and no one else could, then we would be stuck forever!
NancyM. . . . .oooooo
Elissa. . . . .yep
NancyM. . . . .ahhhhhhh
RevRandy. . . . .maybe one of the purposes of life is to not only find our own fulfillment, but to bring others along too
NancyM. . . . .indeed
RevRandy. . . . .not to our fulfillment, but to theirs
kath. . . . .my dad just died a long slow death, he would have been thrilled for me to enjoy an ice cream with him or without him,
RevRandy. . . . .kath - you know what I mean - even the hardest hours will remain a treasure, i suspect
kath. . . . .yes, with my daughter too
NancyM. . . . .i c no death
TF88. . . . .and it's not as fulfilling to sit with grampa just cause you think you should choose that... you have to want to choose that for yourself.
kath. . . . .yep
Elissa. . . . ."two roads diverged in a wood and i took neither and both disappeared" (misquote from rikkity)
RevRandy. . . . .TF - right on
WhiteTiger. . . . .TF- maybe that "fulfilling" rider is part of the problem
Elissa. . . . .yes tf, but it doesn't necessarily have to be an easy choice, or feel "natural"
TF88. . . . .right elissa
kath. . . . .the hard? stuff has been opportunities to see my inner self, the part that connects with all that is
NancyM. . . . .only our missing of the physical.... but grief is normal
RevRandy. . . . .you have to do it from the core of your spiritual being - this is not a role, this is not a rehearsal - this is the real thing
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- I see no barrier to it being all three concurrently
RevRandy. . . . .I say that because so many think of this as a try-out for heaven, not heaven already here on earth waiting for us to notice
NancyM. . . . .hmm
RevRandy. . . . .WT - could be all three - if it were ALL three, and not caught up in one or two
NancyM. . . . .hmmmmmmmm
WhiteTiger. . . . .bingo, RR ;)
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RevRandy. . . . .a challenge - try to live like you were already on the other side -- not just auditioning for it
NancyM. . . . .kewl RR
RevRandy. . . . .what would change?
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, we already ARE on the other side.. just expressing in polarized form across the veil twixt here and there... but that's just my personal insanity
kath. . . . .wt that is not insanity
kath. . . . .we are here and there
NancyM. . . . .I C IN A MULTIDIMENSIONAL quandy/quest
Elissa. . . . .next question guys:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13What does connection mean to you?
kath. . . . .union with all that is
moon. . . . .Compassion
Elissa. . . . .i like those answers... others?
WhiteTiger. . . . .connection... so many possible meanings... without context to the question, how to elect the appropriate on?
Elissa. . . . .the question is just to get you thinking and see what your impressions are
NancyM. . . . .trust, love, anger, forgiveness
NancyM. . . . .choice
RevRandy. . . . .a synergistic interposition of polarities that superimpose an elevated reality of existence in which all appearance of dissimilarity disappears, or not
Elissa. . . . .hahahahaha
WhiteTiger. . . . .hmmmm... don't see how that is ultimately possible, RR... can't have connection without the foundation of "interval", and that is inevitably defining of difference
RevRandy. . . . .or let's try this PtoP (and a different format - I have a PtoP to share, and then we will take a break before E's PtoP on the subject)
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13"What does difference--real, deep difference--mean in Spiritual Persistence.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13The core of the connectional image: if we can sense our connection to our
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13most opposite, everything else is easy." (4/11/99 - V#41)
RevRandy. . . . .Connection is seeing some component of our spiritual self, even in what is apparently the most opposite person
RevRandy. . . . .if we can, even with the person who seems to be our counterpoint, see some point of similarity, we have connection
RevRandy. . . . .and if we can't see that, is it the lack of it in them we see, or in ourselves?
RevRandy. . . . .or in ourselves?????? hmmmmmmm
Elissa. . . . .ahhh
Elissa. . . . .the distorted mirror
RevRandy. . . . .I leave you with that to ponder while we take our 10 minute break
RevRandy. . . . .talk,
RevRandy. . . . .pomder
RevRandy. . . . .powder
RevRandy. . . . .pander
Elissa. . . . .let's make that 8.564789 minutes
Elissa. . . . .bbbbbbbbrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkk
RevRandy. . . . .connection
NancyM. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .break
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*** Elissa is now known as Elissa_brb
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WhiteTiger. . . . .hiya carol, marie
Carol. . . . .hi everyone
Carol. . . . .break?
WhiteTiger. . . . .yup
Carol. . . . .my timing is wonderful
Marie1. . . . .hi
WhiteTiger. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .Connection is seeing some component of our spiritual self, even in what is apparently the most opposite person
WhiteTiger. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .if we can, even with the person who seems to be our counterpoint, see some point of similarity, we have connection
WhiteTiger. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .and if we can't see that, is it the lack of it in them we see, or in ourselves?
WhiteTiger. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .and if we can't see that, is it the lack of it in them we see, or in ourselves?
WhiteTiger. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .or in ourselves?????? hmmmmmmm
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa. . . . .ahhh
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa. . . . .the distorted mirror
WhiteTiger. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .I leave you with that to ponder while we take our 10 minute break
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR left us with that one hanging ;)
Carol. . . . .hum
Carol. . . . .we have connection with that person does he mean?
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*** Elissa_brb is now known as Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .HI!!!
Elissa. . . . .hey carol!!! good to see you!
Carol. . . . .how are you both?
RevRandy. . . . .yep - like the old serials, left you with a cliff hanger
RevRandy. . . . .if you can't find a way to connect to someone else, is it because of them, or because of something in you?
Elissa. . . . .i'm well, carol, thanks :)
Carol. . . . .good!
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Elissa. . . . .ok, we're back now... run back to your puters lol
Elissa. . . . .and here's another PtoP on connection:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"There is always a greater unity available than is evident, until we reach
Elissa. . . . . 2,13ultimate oneness with All That Is. So, whenever anyone speaks of division or
Elissa. . . . . 2,13separation or difference, they are connecting themselves to the past--the
Elissa. . . . . 2,13lesser. A view of life without a glimpse of future and more inclusive models
Elissa. . . . . 2,13is always a sign of backward looking. True, those who look forward cannot
Elissa. . . . . 2,13always give details or proof, but in time they will show. What is proven and
Elissa. . . . . 2,13shown is past.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"So, when a dreamer speaks of vision of unity and can't give all the
Elissa. . . . . 2,13details, that's how it should be; and if they can give all the details, it's
Elissa. . . . . 2,13not a vision of the future. In order to find the unity we don't know yet, we
Elissa. . . . . 2,13have to be willing to enter the mystery. So, that's it." (8/18/2000)
Elissa. . . . .connection has to do with looking forward...
Elissa. . . . . those who talk about
Elissa. . . . .separation, those who talk about having the only "right" way,
Elissa. . . . .those who talk about competition and scarcity and being special
Elissa. . . . .will eventually either need to change their perspective, or make
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Elissa. . . . .themselves obsolete...
Elissa. . . . .and all relationships can, i think, be seen
Elissa. . . . .in this way...
Elissa. . . . .to be in a relationship and compete for power or
Elissa. . . . .control is lose the possibility of connection--of joining with
Elissa. . . . .the other person and learning from them and gaining and giving
Elissa. . . . .of oneself...
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... thesis, antithesis, synthesis
Elissa. . . . .same thing in microcosm and macrocosm...
Elissa. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .in the movie,
Elissa. . . . ."white men can't jump" one of the characters says,
Elissa. . . . ."sometimes when
Elissa. . . . .you win, you lose; and sometimes when you lose, you win,
Elissa. . . . .and sometimes when you lose or win, you tie”...
Elissa. . . . .connection requires a letting go of the need to be right, or first,
Elissa. . . . .or special--which is why short-timers have such a tough time of it...
Elissa. . . . .connection requires a willingness to "enter the mystery"...
Elissa. . . . .connection requires a trust in self and an openness to others...
Elissa. . . . .it's not an "either/or" proposition, but an "and" proposition.
Elissa. . . . .what do you think?
WhiteTiger. . . . .can also be seen as setting aside that "what's in it for me" ethic
kath. . . . .i think i love the sacred mystery
Elissa. . . . .kath :)
kath. . . . .there really is no winning, no losing, the game is not a game and what's in for me is experience
Elissa. . . . .definitely, wt, as it excludes what's in it for others
WhiteTiger. . . . .mmmmm... that "what can I do for others" is just a sneaky form of "what's in it for me", imo
Elissa. . . . .sometimes it can be a kind of spiritual bypass, yes... the trick, i think, is to do both and it isn't easy
RevRandy. . . . .WT - what if that is true - and what we do for others we also do for ourselves, in the long run, is there any difference?
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- there is, imo... it ain't about payoff, the way I see it
RevRandy. . . . .if it is about connecting, does it matter whose hand reaches out first, or farthest?
kath. . . . .no prizes
Elissa. . . . .as long as both reach out
WhiteTiger. . . . .kath :)
Elissa. . . . .kath you must have seen my next PtoP lol
kath. . . . .no lets' hear it
Elissa. . . . .ok, so here's the next part of our chat and our next question:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13How do you think/feel/ponder that our souls evolve?
WhiteTiger. . . . .I don't buy into evolution, period.. unfounded dogma, and I don't care for any, thanks ;)
Elissa. . . . .ok, no evolution for wt lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .can I have some more bean dip though?
* Elissa throws another quart of bean dip at wt :)
RevRandy. . . . .the apes are calling WT -
WhiteTiger. . . . .ook, ook
kath. . . . .well, i do experience and make choices
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Elissa. . . . .how do we change and grow and develop?
kath. . . . .it may be that i accept the truth
Elissa. . . . .acceptance
RevRandy. . . . .if nothing changes, then ........
RevRandy. . . . .but if even one thing in all of this changes, then change is possible
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RevRandy. . . . .hello fang
*** eagle (ADCjava@63.117.116.***) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
fang. . . . .hey
WhiteTiger. . . . .hiya fang
eagle. . . . .hello
Elissa. . . . .hey fang and suwan and everyone else i missed when they came in :)
* suwan waves from the corner
fang. . . . .fang waves from the puppy box ;) lol
Elissa. . . . .here's a PtoP and my ramblings:
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"You know, the percentage of tea ladies who are wacko is the same as the
Elissa. . . . . 2,13bishops who are wacko--and so too for teachers and presidents and dog
Elissa. . . . . 2,13catchers. So it's a universal percentage, since spiritual persistence is not
Elissa. . . . . 2,13about trade or station but about character and soul. That's where Hinduism
Elissa. . . . . 2,13gets it wrong. They think the hierarchy is played out in this life, but this
Elissa. . . . . 2,13life is just one level. No class is better than others. A lowly slave could
Elissa. . . . . 2,13have been born a prince.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13
Elissa. . . . . 2,13"So, remember that some of the Protestants were right. There are no outward
Elissa. . . . . 2,13signs of development. What appears to be a simple life could just as easily
Elissa. . . . . 2,13be a final bit of work on a highly evolved spirit. Is washing the piece of
Elissa. . . . . 2,13marble the beginning or the end of creating the sculpture. Both humble acts.
Elissa. . . . . 2,13 2,13Hey, ya never know duz you. Which was closer to fulfillment, Pharaoh or
Elissa. . . . . 2,13Moses. The Egyptians thought Pharaoh was either God or close to it, but was
Elissa. . . . . 2,13he. Ponder. That's enough, and it's sufficient." (6/9/98 - V#36)
WhiteTiger. . . . .hmmmm... made me think of the sphinx... that one was assumed "done" at one point, only to be obviously reworked later
Elissa. . . . .we cannot tell whether someone is spiritually evolved by how good-looking,
Elissa. . . . .wealthy, famous, powerful, fashionable, intelligent, or appealing they are...
Elissa. . . . .spiritual evolution is not about getting physical perks or prizes or
Elissa. . . . .awards...
fang. . . . .thank heavens
Elissa. . . . . that's linear thinking...
Elissa. . . . .that's thinking that says, "when
Elissa. . . . .i get it right, i'll get everything i want" or "if i'm good, santa will
Elissa. . . . .bring me everything on my xmas list"...
fang. . . . .lol, santa forgets me every year now adays ;)
* WhiteTiger is anticipating another stocking full of coal this year
Elissa. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .spiritual evolution is about
Elissa. . . . .becoming who we are in connection with others...
Elissa. . . . .such a tough thing to do!
Elissa. . . . .and this is what we struggle with constantly...
Elissa. . . . .how to be myself and, at
Elissa. . . . .the same time, have various roles in relationships...
Elissa. . . . .how to be a wife,
Elissa. . . . .husband, partner, parent, friend, mentor, teacher, supervisor, student,
Elissa. . . . .etc., etc., etc.
Elissa. . . . .without losing or repressing some of what i am and the
Elissa. . . . .other person's ability to know who i am...
Elissa. . . . . there's another problem: we all
Elissa. . . . .want to be known, we all like to think that others can know our hearts
Elissa. . . . .and souls and appreciate our good qualities and accept the rest...
WhiteTiger. . . . .heck... the evidence is that not one of us even knows our own heart yet
Elissa. . . . .can
Elissa. . . . .anyone else we are in relationship with--and thus, by definition, playing
Elissa. . . . .a role in relation to--really know the totality of "I"?
Elissa. . . . . and if not, can
Elissa. . . . .we ever really know anyone else's soul?
kath. . . . .NO judging condemns the judge
Elissa. . . . .and if not, can we ever presume
Elissa. . . . .to understand where someone else is on the path of their spiritual
Elissa. . . . .evolution? and if all this is true, can we measure our spiritual
Elissa. . . . .evolution by anyone else's?
Elissa. . . . .ok, the floor is open!!!
fang. . . . .are we bad if we shy away from people relationships, and seek out dog ones,, or animal ones?
Elissa. . . . .not bad, fang, no! just maybe limiting your connections
WhiteTiger. . . . .fang- once saw someone ask "how do ya know yer correct path"... the answer: "look down, it's the one under yer feet"
Elissa. . . . .all paths are correct
suwan. . . . .is it possible to know anyone else's soul or spiritual evolution?
suwan. . . . .or even our own?
suwan. . . . .isn't it all evolution?
fang. . . . .only our own i believe
WhiteTiger. . . . .suwan- how can ya know the stage when ya don't know the intention or the end goal?
fang. . . . .if we're smart enlightened enough to figure it out
Elissa. . . . .suwan, in my experience the only thing we can know is the difference between a short- and long-timer... other than that, no
suwan. . . . .wt-does it matter?
WhiteTiger. . . . .suwan- my point exactly ;)
RevRandy. . . . .I am thinking of the Trilobite - those fossil thingies
RevRandy. . . . .there must have been a time when they were the top species around
RevRandy. . . . .and they probably had some conception that if they could only get their little trilobite act together
RevRandy. . . . .and be the best trilobites
RevRandy. . . . .everything would be obvious
RevRandy. . . . .and all they are today is a bunch of fossils
RevRandy. . . . .interesting fossils
WhiteTiger. . . . .and it WOULD, RR... they would know exactly how to be trilobites
RevRandy. . . . .yes
WhiteTiger. . . . .and get so bored with knowing all of what they would do, they'd give up and go extinct ;)
kath. . . . .i like fossils
kath. . . . .hey, new thought on evolution
kath. . . . .fossilization
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .but unless they evolved,
RevRandy. . . . .they would be stuck
RevRandy. . . . .does anyone here want to go extinct?
kath. . . . .sure
Elissa. . . . .i do i do
* WhiteTiger pokes a paw in the air
RevRandy. . . . .yes paw
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... was doing a classroom affirmative
kath. . . . .lol
suwan. . . . .if we go extinct will we be finished?
kath. . . . .with this part maybe
RevRandy. . . . .extinct - physically or spiritually?
kath. . . . .no spiritual extinction
Elissa. . . . .fini, over with, outta here
WhiteTiger. . . . .which "here" Elissa? this one, or all of them?
RevRandy. . . . .unable to connect - no more partners - like those 7th grade dances where all the possible partners were taken so ....
NancyM. . . . .ALL ?
RevRandy. . . . .all we could see as partners without evolving into a new definition of partnering
Elissa. . . . .i'll settle for this one, wt... looking forward to what's next :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .me too! this game is getting sillier and sillier
kath. . . . .no such thing as spiritual extinction
Elissa. . . . .no, just spiritual persistence
kath. . . . .i do like this life though
kath. . . . .yep
suwan. . . . .well the question is how to move?
kath. . . . .and in that we have no choice
kath. . . . .we just persist, here there
Elissa. . . . .yes, kath
Elissa. . . . .suwan, we explained all that before you got here! lol
suwan. . . . .oops sorry
suwan. . . . .I'm chastised!
WhiteTiger. . . . .*shrug* I don't expect to be back here, ever... figure it will be a different assignment, if there is a next time
RevRandy. . . . .well, before we get too close to 11 - I will posit a last PtoP
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13"A few thoughts from the eternal Moo. Does meaning increase with the
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13increase of spiritual complexity. No. We always have the potential to find
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13 100% of the daily recommended... no, 100% of the meaning applicable to any
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13level we are in. And while it might seem like a hierarchy, it is not. The
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13meaning that applies at the simplest level unlocks the universe as well as
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13the most sublime. When we reach greater complexity we hold, and have to
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13hold, all that is us.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13"It would be like asking, 'Which is more meaningful, 2 + 2 = 4 or a² + 3a -
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13 12 = 15.' They both have equal meaning, and you can't get the more complex
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13without the other. So don't get proud about how much meaning you've
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13discerned. It ain't better than any other level, and it ain't worse. It just is.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13"So the question always becomes, 'Do you find this meaningful. If so, how.'
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13And there are no grades. It's like the stupid teachers in middle school who
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13would ask, 'What do you think about this,' and then try to give it a grade.
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13Hey, it's what I was thinking about it. Go for the meaning, and by that I
RevRandy. . . . . 2,13mean personal meaning." (7/28/98 - V#38)
kath. . . . .yeppers
RevRandy. . . . .When we are talking about evolution and meaning and change
RevRandy. . . . .we are not setting up a hierarchy
RevRandy. . . . .of value
RevRandy. . . . .but rather the challenge of finding the meaning appropriate to where we are
NancyM. . . . .oh yes.....
RevRandy. . . . .I give-a you-a an exmaple, as a friend of ours would say
RevRandy. . . . .you know how to order off a menu in New York City
RevRandy. . . . .but then you go to Venice
WhiteTiger. . . . .exmaple? can't we have an exbirch?
Elissa. . . . .hahaha
RevRandy. . . . .and you try to order (expine that one, please)
Elissa. . . . .o no
RevRandy. . . . .like you are in NY
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
NancyM. . . . .in venice anything u want
RevRandy. . . . .and suddenly you have too little or too much food
Elissa. . . . .no such thing as too much food
RevRandy. . . . .what was important was to know what was meaningful where you were
NancyM. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .no prob... ya either lose a pound or two or feed the grubby kid hanging around outside
RevRandy. . . . .such bad food, and such small portions too
Elissa. . . . .bring it to grandpa’s with the ice cream :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .sometimes
RevRandy. . . . .it seems like people think there is "an" answer
RevRandy. . . . .and if we only for that
RevRandy. . . . .we would have it made
RevRandy. . . . .but the answer for one level of spiritual existence
RevRandy. . . . .would not work for another
NancyM. . . . .one ?
WhiteTiger. . . . .infinite paths, infinite branches.. all equivalent
NancyM. . . . .infinite?
NancyM. . . . .yeeeeees
WhiteTiger. . . . .a point has no dimensions... and ya can put an infinite number of twisting lines of points in the brick of what is
RevRandy. . . . .hey - act like a middle schooler on your first day in high school, and you'll experience what I mean
RevRandy. . . . .if you can't evolve, can't or won't change how you act, you will miss opportunities for growth
RevRandy. . . . .and connection
RevRandy. . . . .and that is all I have to say about that!
RevRandy. . . . .(but I suspect y'all have a lot more to say)
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Elissa. . . . .hey journey :)
journey. . . . .Hi all :) happy turkey day
NancyM. . . . .peace journey
WhiteTiger. . . . .and if ya can't or won't, then for that time and place, that is the way the creator wanted ya to be ;)
NancyM. . . . .free will.....
RevRandy. . . . .How do you know what the creator wants?
NancyM. . . . .indeed
journey. . . . .i would usually blab, but late :(
Elissa. . . . .o blab anyway, journey... i like your blabbing lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- look around.. if ya posit a creator, an ultimate source, then ALL of it is from that source, and the way it should be ;)
journey. . . . .Elissa, you are too nice ((hugs))
Elissa. . . . .:)
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RevRandy. . . . .but what if you posit a process, not a creator?
WhiteTiger. . . . .then ya got my (probably erroneous) sympathies :)
RevRandy. . . . .process theology, which does exactly that, stands up well to any arguments from the human side
Elissa. . . . .hey jackie :)
Jackie. . . . .hi everyone
RevRandy. . . . .hey Jackie!
Jackie. . . . .sorry I'm late, company
NancyM. . . . .what if it is ALL right... and wrong.. synonymous
journey. . . . .i believe the creator will let ya know if your right on or not in a loving way
Elissa. . . . .journey, how would that happen?
journey. . . . .my experience has been that working toward a goal not for your higher good would be filled with road blocks and at the same time
journey. . . . .a strange window of opportunity opens up.
Elissa. . . . .ok, journey, i understand
Elissa. . . . .that has been my experience as well
kath. . . . .creator wants what i want we are co-creators and unless i give meaning to my experience, the collective consciousness has lost a member
Elissa. . . . .cocreators, i think so too, kath
kath. . . . .mystery
NancyM. . . . .I make my own approval/disapproval
Elissa. . . . .wt, do the parts of your creator's creation have limits? i'm intrigued by your perspective but not entirely sure i get it
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- some parts have limits... for example, look in a mirror ;)
Elissa. . . . .physical parts have limits, of course
WhiteTiger. . . . .then yer Q is answered, yes? "some parts have limits"
Elissa. . . . .limits are physical, not spiritual in my view, wt
NancyM. . . . .ditto Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .if the "creative" and the "created" work in harmony, then something more arises
NancyM. . . . .amen
WhiteTiger. . . . .I disagree with the cocreator notion, personally. The menu may be infinite, but choosing one from column A and two from column B don't make ya the chef
RevRandy. . . . .and I differentiate "creator" from "creative"
NancyM. . . . .*S*
RevRandy. . . . .sometimes with column A and column B, they are trying to tell you there really is no chef, just pre-cooked dinners
NancyM. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .lol
journey. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- someplace there is someone putting those pre-cooked dinners together
Elissa. . . . .maybe
Elissa. . . . .probably a bot
RevRandy. . . . .in a small building, on the outskirts JFK airport
NancyM. . . . .but what if u desire column f
journey. . . . .lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .who programmed the bot?
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .yeah - who put @}i{ there
Elissa. . . . .sorry nancy, we're all out of F today at wt's restaurant lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .Nancy- the menu is infinite... but ya gotta make the effort to read it ;)
RevRandy. . . . .and who put it in charge
NancyM. . . . .Server
kath. . . . .rev, the chef did
NancyM. . . . .lol
*** RevRandy sets mode: -o }i{
RevRandy. . . . .yes!!!!!!!!!!!
Elissa. . . . .hahahaha victory at last!
fang. . . . .of it weren't for precooked dinners, and boxed food i'd starve
NancyM. . . . .i adore chefs
RevRandy. . . . .}i{ is dead
kath. . . . .ok the REV did
Elissa. . . . .the revolution has begun!
journey. . . . .i think the precooked dinners offer us much in way of thought and suggestion
NancyM. . . . .rofl
Elissa. . . . .i kissed a chef in france once :)
NancyM. . . . .french or american elissa ?
Elissa. . . . .moroccan, actually
RevRandy. . . . .I witnessed it and he deserved it -- he was as close to God as a chef should get
WhiteTiger. . . . .ooooo... double entendre
suwan. . . . .well I have to ask, was that a french kiss?
NancyM. . . . .lol
journey. . . . .hahahha suwan
RevRandy. . . . .well, it is 11, and time to go folks -
suwan. . . . .she set me up, journey!
fang. . . . .ok,
journey. . . . .gosh, i've missed being here :)
Elissa. . . . .lol suwan, i'll never tell
fang. . . . .night ya'll
Elissa. . . . .((((((((journey))))))))
* moon : Goodnight everyone!
fang. . . . .oh elissa come on spill
Elissa. . . . .awwww already? ok, here's the song
RevRandy. . . . .thanks for all the creative evolutionary, connectional, purposeful comments
NancyM. . . . .awwwww peace.... sleep sweet RR n Elissa
journey. . . . .elissa, never kiss and tell :)
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 0,14!Elissa rainbow.mid 14,0 :o)
NancyM. . . . .thanx
WhiteTiger. . . . .thx for the bean dip *EG*
fang. . . . .boo hiss
NancyM. . . . .WT ppppppp
Elissa. . . . .lol thank you everyone for your great energy and thoughts tonight! love you all!!!
NancyM. . . . .love U
journey. . . . .love ya elissa and rev
suwan. . . . .thank you elissa, love you too
Elissa. . . . .fang, what's this boo hiss lol
fang. . . . .i wanted details lol
Elissa. . . . .o ok, fang, too bad lolol
fang. . . . .;)
fang. . . . .i live vicariously through others ;) lol
WhiteTiger. . . . .nite Elissa, RR... another fun one :)
Elissa. . . . .nite wt, where's hyper?
Elissa. . . . .i miss her
Jackie. . . . .good night all
RevRandy. . . . .have a good week all
WhiteTiger. . . . .sleeping, Elissa... she said to tell ya both high and ((()))
Elissa. . . . .give her a big ((((((()))))))))) from me
WhiteTiger. . . . .hasta la poofers, kiddies ;)
NancyM. . . . .{{{{{{{{{ELISSA}}}}}}}}} I LOVE UUUUUUU
NancyM. . . . .GLORIOUS Holyday season
Elissa. . . . .(((((((((((nancy)))))))))))) love you, gf!
fang. . . . .boo hiss to holidays ;)
fang. . . . .night elissa, and everyone
journey. . . . .nite fang
fang. . . . .love ya'll
Elissa. . . . .nite fang
Elissa. . . . .love you, fang
Session Close: Sun Nov 26 23:37:16 2000