log120300

Session Start: Sun Dec 03 20:46:14 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"Rikkity's Friends, Part 1" 2,9Sunday 2,11December 3 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker, M.Ed. (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

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RevRandy. . . . .well, let's get started --- because both E and I have some special things in our lives to share
RevRandy. . . . .and there is much to talk about
* SunnyMoon : Hello everyone!
RevRandy. . . . .hi!
Elissa. . . . .SunnyMoon, were you formerly known as Moon?
SunnyMoon. . . . .Yes. Now i have more sunshine
RevRandy. . . . .I like that!
Elissa. . . . .it fits... the sun makes the moon shine :)
SunnyMoon. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .I thought Uncle Ned made the moonshine
Jackie. . . . .funny
SunnyMoon. . . . .LOL
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .OK - I will attempt to behave tonight
* WhiteTiger cracks open a mason jar, passes to RR
RevRandy. . . . .ty, WT
RevRandy. . . . .lightning, pure lightning
Elissa. . . . .can i have a swig?
Jackie. . . . .if it is good for a cold, send it here
RevRandy. . . . .yeah - Jackie needs a long drag
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .cures what ails you (unless, of course, it is drink that ails you)
Jackie. . . . .ales you
WhiteTiger. . . . .guarantee, couple good lugs of shine, ya won't worry at all about the cold symptoms
Elissa. . . . .o no... gonna be one of those nights
Jackie. . . . .tell us the big news
RevRandy. . . . .OK - so, no need to run the intro tonight
RevRandy. . . . .well.......
Elissa. . . . .unless everyone has had too much moonshine lol
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RevRandy. . . . .hey fs
firespirit. . . . .good evening all!
Elissa. . . . .hey fs :)
RevRandy. . . . .I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a prefrontal lobotomy
WhiteTiger. . . . .we're all still alive, so it wasn't too much, Elissa ;)
Jackie. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .ah is that how you measure success
RevRandy. . . . .(and I said I would behave ..... sure)
RevRandy. . . . .But, let's run the intro one line at a time, if we can, Miss Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .and when we get to the salient moments ....
Elissa. . . . .hahahaha... you want to do a commentary on the intro?
RevRandy. . . . .I will interrupt you
WhiteTiger. . . . .no prob RR... we took that "behave" post of yers with a 25 lb saltlick
Elissa. . . . .lolol
WhiteTiger. . . . .maybe in this context, they're saline moments?
Elissa. . . . .:(
RevRandy. . . . .ok, I'm licked
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
* Elissa runs from the room holding her ears and screaming "no more no more!"
RevRandy. . . . .you all know the intro -
RevRandy. . . . .but now there are a few changes to it
bluelight. . . . .uh huh
RevRandy. . . . .first of all, Elissa has added some more letters after her name
RevRandy. . . . .NCC
Elissa. . . . .3 more letters
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Jackie. . . . .which mean
RevRandy. . . . .will you explain those letters?
* Elissa comes back into the room to accept the accolades of the crowd
bluelight. . . . .:D
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Elissa. . . . .National Certified Counselor
Elissa. . . . .now i'm officially certifiable :)
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol
Jackie. . . . .congratulations
Elissa. . . . .ty jackie
Elissa. . . . .deni-face :)
Deni. . . . .hiya lissa poo
Elissa. . . . .hey hyper :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .have to change yer name to campbell, if yer gonna keep adding to the alphabet soup, Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .hey deni, and hyper (awake!!!!)
Hypernoodle. . . . .Hi Elissa :)
Hypernoodle. . . . .Hi Rev Randy
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Elissa. . . . .hey tf :)
TF88. . . . .hi :)
RevRandy. . . . .Hey TF
Elissa. . . . .one cannot have too many letters after their name
* WhiteTiger pats Elissa on the back *THWAP!*
RevRandy. . . . .she is downplaying her big-time ace-ing of a national exam!!!!!!
Jackie. . . . .wow!!
RevRandy. . . . .(and I do mean ace-ing!!!!)
Elissa. . . . .ok ok *blush*
* Elissa pats wt on the cheek... *slap*
* RevRandy slaps WhiteTiger around a bit with a large trout
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .Let the beatings begin.....as Bill Cosby would say
firespirit. . . . .LOL
Elissa. . . . .o good... i like kinky
bluelight. . . . .{----- needs counsel Bigtime
Elissa. . . . .blue, no problem, i'll cure you lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol.....see what happens when you study too long for a test......you get "hinky"
RevRandy. . . . .so congrats to Elissa on her new status
Deni. . . . .yeah LIssa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bluelight. . . . .{--- needs cure Bigtime
Jackie. . . . .yes, that's wonderful
bluelight. . . . .no hehes either hehe
WhiteTiger. . . . .{-- needs some more shine
Elissa. . . . .thank you, and send your tax-deductible donations to me
firespirit. . . . .LOL
bluelight. . . . .hahahhaa u so funny E
Elissa. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .and the other change is that I have been granted
bluelight. . . . .drum roll here it comes..
Jackie. . . . .tadatada
RevRandy. . . . .one of the initial 118 national grants from the Eli Lilly foundation
WhiteTiger. . . . .cool RR :)
Hypernoodle. . . . .cool :)
RevRandy. . . . .to spend a six month sabbatical finishing the books on SP that I have been working on so long
Jackie. . . . .Congratulations to you, too
TF88. . . . .congratulations randy :)
Elissa. . . . .da rev is awesome!!!!!! what an honor!
bluelight. . . . .so THAT's what u'll b doing .. terrific!
Jackie. . . . .this is wonderful
RevRandy. . . . .in other words - the foundation pays for the whole sabbatical!!!!!! even living expenses there
firespirit. . . . .Cool!
Deni. . . . .cool Rev!!
Elissa. . . . .now we can eat!!!
RevRandy. . . . .like the old days, I have a patron!
Jackie. . . . .this is great news
Hypernoodle. . . . .enjoy for a day ...... then work work work!
Elissa. . . . .that's what the whip is for, hyper lol
firespirit. . . . .Lovely
RevRandy. . . . .and with that note, I offer our words of invocation
RevRandy. . . . .please join in the spirit of these words which inspire me in all I do
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And guided in all ways gracious.
RevRandy. . . . .Amen
Jackie. . . . .amen
Elissa. . . . .amen~
SunnyMoon. . . . .Amen
Deni. . . . .amen
firespirit. . . . .Amen
WhiteTiger. . . . .aho
TF88. . . . .peace
bluelight. . . . .amen
RevRandy. . . . .Tonight we are beginning the process of ending our return to the rainbow
RevRandy. . . . .we have reached the final category
RevRandy. . . . .of
RevRandy. . . . .Rikkity's Entity and Friends
RevRandy. . . . .and this will be a visit to the category over two sessions --- she just has too many friends
RevRandy. . . . .And I am going to be your guide for much of tonight
RevRandy. . . . .and next week Elissa will be more of the leader
RevRandy. . . . .so, let's think a little about those friends of Rikkity's on the other side
RevRandy. . . . .(although they feel like they are crowding around me right now on this side)
Deni. . . . .:)
Elissa. . . . .:)
RevRandy. . . . .(all shouting "me, me")
firespirit. . . . .cute
RevRandy. . . . .cool it guys!
RevRandy. . . . .so, the somewhat usual format, of a Point to Ponder from one of Rikkity's friends,
RevRandy. . . . .my take on it
RevRandy. . . . .and then we all go at it -
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RevRandy. . . . .hey fang!!!!!
fang. . . . .hey
RevRandy. . . . .(fang, we have a special message from Rikkity just for you ..... don't get excited about it ..... but it is for you)
Elissa. . . . .hey fang :)
fang. . . . .:) ty rikkity
fang. . . . .i'm kind of in the dumps... since only 2 more nights with ya'll
Elissa. . . . .(((((((fang))))))))
RevRandy. . . . .don't say ty until you hear the message -
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Never, I repeat Never feed beans to dogs
fang. . . . .lol
Deni. . . . .rofl rev
firespirit. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .hahahahaha
RevRandy. . . . .for real folks - she said that to us recently
Jackie. . . . .funny
RevRandy. . . . .so, more seriously, these words
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1MCP:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"So, when you travel, you look for two things: one is that which is familiar
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1to you, and the other is that which is different. If you only looked for
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1that which was different you would not understand what you were seeing, no?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1For instance, I am very short... some might call me height-challenged, ha.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1So, if I was walking down the road and came up to a very tall man, and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1looked at him as only a very tall man, what would I have to say to him?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Nothing, nada, niente, zippo! I would look up at him, I would stare, I would
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1be impressed possibly, but I would not be able to relate to him or learn
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1from him. So, but if then I asked him about his children or his dreams or
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1his hopes and fears, aha! Then we would have something to talk about, and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1then perhaps he would tell me what it was like to be so tall.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Here's another example for you: take language. If you learn a new language,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1and all you learn are the words, what good is it? The words are meaningless
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1in themselves--they are different and foreign and mean nothing to you but
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1sounds. Ah, but if then you translate them, you make them part of your own
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1reality and experience and relate them to what you know, well then, you have
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1drawn a bigger circle and have expanded your experience and knowledge. Get it?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Let's think about spices for a minute. When I was on my travels I brought
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1back home many exotic spices that no one in my country knew about before. I
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1brought them back to be used in what was already known. If I had brought
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1them back to be consumed as a whole, well, that would give many people
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1indigestion of the first order! But what they did was use them along with
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1the foods they already were familiar with, and those foods became tastier
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1and bolder and spicier and more enjoyable. So, the point: differences can
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1lead to connections when you can use them to expand what you already
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1understand and have experienced. There must be some common ground, or there
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1will be no understanding. But without understanding, you will not see the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1common ground.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"... Connect to the differences you can make part of your learning; and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1those that are just too different to comprehend, perhaps that means you are
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1not ready to comprehend them." (excerpt from 4/18/99 - W#125)
WhiteTiger. . . . .I'm not so sure about that one... perhaps it's just the way it's stated, but imo, the "new" stands on it's own, like the cheese. Seems to me the trick is seeing ENOUGH of the new thing to be able to abstract the aspects that parallel familiar info... that gives ya linkages for assimilating
Elissa. . . . .good point, wt
WhiteTiger. . . . .oops.. sorry RR... stepped on yer format :(
RevRandy. . . . .OK - that points me to one set of phrases here
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1There must be some common ground, or there
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1will be no understanding. But without understanding, you will not see the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1common ground.
RevRandy. . . . .I am struck by how this parallels thinking in a number of traditions
RevRandy. . . . .Thoreau said that the sun that puts out your eye is like darkness to you
RevRandy. . . . .you have to have some connection, something that puts it in your "already" frame to open you to your "not yet" possibilities
RevRandy. . . . .we take a piece of the new, and mix it with the old, and see if the new leavens it
RevRandy. . . . .what new arises from it
RevRandy. . . . .and then maybe,
RevRandy. . . . .after that kind of familiarity with it
RevRandy. . . . .and its properties
RevRandy. . . . .we can see it for itself
RevRandy. . . . .and not just as an element in something else
RevRandy. . . . .which I think brings us back to what WT was talking about
Jackie. . . . .incorporate it into what we already know
RevRandy. . . . .I am working on an idea related to this
RevRandy. . . . .for next week's morning sermon
RevRandy. . . . .and I want to see how it goes with MCP
RevRandy. . . . .so, let me try it out with y'all
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WhiteTiger. . . . .actually, I mostly do that bass ackwards... incorporate the old into the new, for temporary reference purposes, and expand from there
RevRandy. . . . .OK WT - I doubt the direction matters --
RevRandy. . . . .new into old, old into new, we find a mix
RevRandy. . . . .I think what is important is what happens afterwards
WhiteTiger. . . . .(: does think it I
RevRandy. . . . .too me that think
Elissa. . . . .hahaha
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
Hypernoodle. . . . .hmmmm
RevRandy. . . . .but if after we take in the new
RevRandy. . . . .we revert to the old as the paradigm
RevRandy. . . . .then we often label that new whatever a "miracle" or a miraculous event
RevRandy. . . . .when we instead shift to a new norm as the given, then we get paradigm shift
WhiteTiger. . . . .ahhhh... but CAN ya revert to the old paradigm, after you've expanded yer "space" to accommodate the new?
RevRandy. . . . .WT - I keep seeing it happen - as people want to see things as
RevRandy. . . . ."one time only" events
RevRandy. . . . .rather than as pieces to be incorporated into a new way of perceiving
RevRandy. . . . .people hold onto old paradigms all the time, even when they don't work anymore
WhiteTiger. . . . .oh, sure.. denial seems an inherent tendency... but ya can't deny what yer not including in yer picture
WhiteTiger. . . . .which amounts to "ignore the man behind the curtain", imo... kinda fruitless
RevRandy. . . . .and if we look back at history, we see lots of "miracles" which become the ordinary when made part of the paradigm
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RevRandy. . . . .and lots of paradigms which become irrelevant by failing to see changes as inherent changes
firespirit. . . . .But were they ordinary?
RevRandy. . . . .fs - what is ordinary?
firespirit. . . . .that is what I mean..what is the norm now...may not have been in the past..
RevRandy. . . . .before or after the experience - the same thing changes its nature
Elissa. . . . .so it seems to all come down to a fear of change
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... ordinary is just that which is accepted/understood as part of the known order... orderliness is almost the same thing
RevRandy. . . . .right - MCP would know -- when he came back with all of his stories of his travels, he was known as the person of a million lies
RevRandy. . . . .but now we know that he was not lying
WhiteTiger. . . . .isa- just about everything comes down to some fear or other in the long run, don't it? ;)
Elissa. . . . .not everything, wt, but everything that holds us back :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- submit that those things which drive us forward fall in the same category
Elissa. . . . .i believe fear keeps us stuck, wt
RevRandy. . . . .And so, a question to you all --- has there been something in your life which you saw as extra-ordinary, or miraculous once,
RevRandy. . . . .which now you see as just part of the fabric of your being?
firespirit. . . . .The problem is people don't live in order...some think they do..
Elissa. . . . .lol great comment, fs!
RevRandy. . . . .order, order in the chat!
WhiteTiger. . . . .I'll have the pepperoni, with double cheese
Elissa. . . . .second the pepperoni
RevRandy. . . . .is fear another way of saying not ready
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"... Connect to the differences you can make part of your learning; and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1those that are just too different to comprehend, perhaps that means you are
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1not ready to comprehend them." (excerpt from 4/18/99 - W#125)
RevRandy. . . . .maybe it is fear that is holding us back,
RevRandy. . . . .not letting us be ready
WhiteTiger. . . . . wonder why the "perhaps" is in that one? seems superfluous
firespirit. . . . .fear can make people do and say many strange things..
RevRandy. . . . .maybe some other reason we cannot yet understand ourselves
RevRandy. . . . .not ready is one option ... not capable .... not open ..... not of this spiritual level
RevRandy. . . . .but, let me move on to another PtoP for this evening .... and see if we are open to it?
firespirit. . . . .k
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- seems to me the last three are just the first one in drag
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1TJ:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Hello, dear friends. People think of me in politics; but I also read much
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1in sciences, and my friend Ben helped me. There will always be a flow from
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1more to less--water, air, electricity, and energy in general. But we must
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1remember that we are thoughtful and decisive beings, and that which is a law
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1of nature need not be a law of human habit. So when someone who is lacking
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1personal energy tries to get you to give some you have a choice. For
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1example, Cyrano didn't have the energy to speak for himself; but if you were
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1to speak for him, it would enervate you but not energize him. Aha.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"This is the way and the test. Let's say you have a thing you call a light
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1bulb... I hope I get this right... wait, let me try it my way. You have a
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1candle which lights your bedchamber. And then someone fumbling in a dark
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1cavern calls to you, and you take your light there. Your chamber is dark;
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1and also it is not enough light to light the cavern, so it is lost. Only if
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1you add energy to energy is there a gain. If your candle had been added to
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1one there already, the scene might have become bright enough. So a test: Do
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1you add your energy to a lack of energy and lose it, or do you add your
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1energy to energy and benefit from the sum. Look deeply and truly at what the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1energy asked for is." (8/11/2000)
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RevRandy. . . . .I chose this Point to Ponder
RevRandy. . . . .because it asks me to think about the ways in which I use my energy
RevRandy. . . . .and lately this has been on my mind a lot
Jackie. . . . .I remember discussing this once before
RevRandy. . . . .(yes -- we did bring this up before)
firespirit. . . . .this is interesting...
firespirit. . . . .I know I do not use my energy the best from time to time..
RevRandy. . . . .I find myself pondering the ways in which I let my energy flow into places where it will not make a difference
RevRandy. . . . .and where it will
firespirit. . . . .Yes...RR
Jackie. . . . .so we should decide just how we want to use our energy for the best use of it
firespirit. . . . .I think it's a lovely idea myself..
RevRandy. . . . .how it will make a difference --- and I would add ... how it would make a positive difference
firespirit. . . . .Yes positive is the best form of energy..
WhiteTiger. . . . .also requires knowing how the spent energy will perform in the specific context... and making sure ya use he right sort
RevRandy. . . . .I keep finding myself using the same analogy from Rikkity over and over recently
RevRandy. . . . .that it takes the same energy to fill a hole as to build a hill --- but from the hill you can see further
firespirit. . . . .important lessons...
Jackie. . . . .so instead of being just busy expending energy in many directions, chose carefully
RevRandy. . . . .yes - WT - we are always, IMHO, groping in the dark about what the consequence will be of our choices, but choose we must
firespirit. . . . .And choice is difficult from time to time..
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- that is true... unless ya started out standing in the hole, then yer gain is more by filling it
RevRandy. . . . .yep - in a hole, you want to get up and out .... but what if you are already out ??
firespirit. . . . .interesting...
firespirit. . . . .what if you need to learn in that hole...
RevRandy. . . . .I keep talking to people who are busy filling holes they claim they left behind years ago
Jackie. . . . .dealing with the same old problems instead of moving on?
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, choice is only tough when ya try to second guess the creator... impose human standards on what is, and ya limit the options
RevRandy. . . . .but how do you know if you are imposing human standards or invoking divine creation?
firespirit. . . . .good question...
Elissa. . . . .it's always easier for us to focus on the negative... and we don't always realise it's negative...
Elissa. . . . .we think we're doing something positive for someone else, when they don't get anything lasting from us and that same energy could be used to fulfill
Elissa. . . . .ourselves
Elissa. . . . .and thus add to the sum total in a meaningful way
Elissa. . . . .(just babbling by myself again here lol)
fang. . . . .rofl
firespirit. . . . .I don't know about you elissa but I am good company with myself..hehe..
Deni. . . . .when we focus our energy on the past hurts it holds us back from moving forward spiritually and can even begin to cause physical illness ...we need to focus our energy on the present
RevRandy. . . . .lots of people keep dealing with the same old questions ... Rikkity's point about learning so much, but it could be the same thing, learned and learned and learned, but never remembered
WhiteTiger. . . . .mmmm... since we're talking energy here.. I'll trot out the battery analogy... if all ya got is either a pos or neg pole, ya got a stasis... and ya go nowhere... takes two poles to establish a flow
RevRandy. . . . .WT - some forms of quantum would argue with you --- but that is another chat
RevRandy. . . . .E - make that point again -- it is an important one
Elissa. . . . .again?
RevRandy. . . . .it got lost .......
RevRandy. . . . .if I understand
RevRandy. . . . .you are pointing out that
RevRandy. . . . .just because we direct the energy somewhere, we cannot be sure that it will be used positively
RevRandy. . . . .and in fact we may be using energy toward someone else
RevRandy. . . . .which could have had a more significant effect on working on ourselves? Is that it
Jackie. . . . .yes, I saw that
Elissa. . . . .yep :)
RevRandy. . . . .how many people do we know who go around trying to save others, and never throw themselves the needed life-saver?
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... tons of those around
Jackie. . . . .perhaps we overextend ourselves, directing our energy elsewhere, and we could better use that energy to better ourselves, then we would have more to offer in the long run
WhiteTiger. . . . .ailing physicians out the gazoo ;)
fang. . . . .oh no, sounds like your bashing me ;)
fang. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .physician, heal thyself also implies meta-physician, heal thyself
RevRandy. . . . .or minister, minister to thyself
RevRandy. . . . .counselor, counsel thyself
RevRandy. . . . .etc
RevRandy. . . . .etc
RevRandy. . . . .and on that note, I will minister to myself, and announce our 10pmET break - back in about 9 minutes
RevRandy. . . . .with more of this festivity - keep on chatting
*** RevRandy is now known as RevRandybrb
Elissa. . . . .bbbbbrrrrrrreeeeeeeaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkk
*** Elissa is now known as Elissa_brb
*** RevRandybrb is now known as RevRandy
*** Elissa_brb is now known as Elissa
RevRandy. . . . .welcome back everyone
*** suwan (stiara@208.129.40.***) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .hey suwan :)
RevRandy. . . . .and time for more of Rikkity's friends ....
RevRandy. . . . .(is there anyone she doesn't know?)
RevRandy. . . . .but here is this PtoP
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1ED:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Hi. And good to meet you. Here's an idea: The ancients thought the greatest
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1power in the world was the sun, and so they made the sun god; and then they
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1thought it was water and worshiped the river. And then fire. And now you
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1there worship the atom and electrical power. Yet, you see the ancients as
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1being naive with their sun and river and fires.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Now, I wonder what is naive about the electrical era. You can't see it from
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1within, but time--so to speak--will tell. Remember that ultimates are all
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1temporal. So, if you base your future on one thing you will miss the real
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1future. You could be left sitting on the banks of the Nile, waiting for the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1fertility of the spring floods (it's an analogy). But there have been trends
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1across all of these understandings. Look for the trends, not the specifics;
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1and then look for the trend of the trends, etc., etc. Bye." (9/15/2000)
RevRandy. . . . .OK - now why did I like this one?
RevRandy. . . . .because of this little theory tossed into the end of it
RevRandy. . . . .(I liked the rest too !!)
RevRandy. . . . .of the trends of the trends
RevRandy. . . . .and I want to play with that for a few moments
RevRandy. . . . .as in thinking about
RevRandy. . . . .trends of trends
RevRandy. . . . .visions of visions
RevRandy. . . . .possibility of possibilities
RevRandy. . . . .potential of potentialities
RevRandy. . . . .all of which say to me
RevRandy. . . . .that we are called not to be sure we are aimed at the most visible target
RevRandy. . . . .or responsive to the most evident explanation
RevRandy. . . . .but that we are open to that path which seems to lead
RevRandy. . . . .in the direction which will offer fulfillment
RevRandy. . . . .even if that fulfillment is beyond the ridge beyond the ridge beyond the ridge we barely see in the distance
RevRandy. . . . .that it is more important to be aimed right, bending, tending, toward that which we value
RevRandy. . . . .than it is to find the easy fix
RevRandy. . . . .the immediate answer
WhiteTiger. . . . .mmmm... and betimes, fulfillment is found only by cessation of it's pursuit
Elissa. . . . .my sense is that people have trouble with this because they want to know what direction to go in lol... we want it concrete... and we want it NOW :)
RevRandy. . . . .and yet we know that the only things that truly last are far from concrete - despite all the hype of the building trades
RevRandy. . . . .things like love, caring, openness, thoughtfulness, all survive in the lives of people affected
RevRandy. . . . .or in the revered stories of the human race
RevRandy. . . . .unfortunately made more concrete in their writing than any story told was ever meant to be
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... "what is" is bigger than we can grasp, and deeper than we can see.. at some point ya have to let go of the wheel and let the system run itself or ya just go in circles
WhiteTiger. . . . ."story"... good term for it :) imo, most of them are highly fictionalized and serially re-written
RevRandy. . . . .or, WT, admit that any system of understanding it, mine, yours, Rikkity's, is only a hint at a glimpse of an image of a fragment ..... of it
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- perzactly... "all paths are valid"
Elissa. . . . .it may help to understand that that which is concrete cannot provide meaning, only perhaps comfort
RevRandy. . . . .comfort - ever sleep on concrete --- stable yes, ..... but comfort?
Elissa. . . . .lol... strange but true
Elissa. . . . .that which is concrete is comforting... we understand it and it's tangible and known
RevRandy. . . . .is it that we, as humans, seek the concrete, the tangible, or is it that we seek the stable (and no, I do not mean a barn)
WhiteTiger. . . . .I knew a guy who was terrified of falling, slept on the hard, solid floor all of the time... great comfort to him
Elissa. . . . .stable, too, of course... that which seems not to change
RevRandy. . . . .but every strategy of consistency always holds its own undoing to some degree
Elissa. . . . .good example, wt... i wonder whether that's why some people find banging their head against a wall comforting
RevRandy. . . . .wait - let me try it
Elissa. . . . .lol
RevRandy. . . . .ouch ouch ouch
bluelight. . . . .LOL
WhiteTiger. . . . .when ya quit, it'll be real comforting ;)
RevRandy. . . . .doesn't do much for me .... well, actually it did alot ....
Elissa. . . . .lol
bluelight. . . . .there has to b some tho i've seen little kids do this
bluelight. . . . .alota bad? giggle
RevRandy. . . . .something in their systems require the repetition
bluelight. . . . .and the rocking
Elissa. . . . .physical pain can distract us from psychic pain, too
bluelight. . . . .hey i'll try that one HAHAHa don't think so
Elissa. . . . .hahaha
bluelight. . . . .woops come to think of it ..been there done that.. forgot :0
RevRandy. . . . .but something in our systems also requires that we repetitiously breath
WhiteTiger. . . . .the sense I had when I've seen little ones do that is that they are simply exploring the range of experience... they mostly haven't set up the good/bad, pos/neg filters yet
bluelight. . . . .or nerve endings hehe
*** skeeterhawk (ADCjava@216.80.230.***) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .let me pose a situation to y'all
RevRandy. . . . .you see a man, rhythmically swaying, seeming to talk to himself
RevRandy. . . . .he does this for maybe an hour
RevRandy. . . . .tell me what I have just described
bluelight. . . . .a guy talking with his guides
RevRandy. . . . .OK -
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol... a tibetan chanting?
RevRandy. . . . .OK
firespirit. . . . .comforting himself..
RevRandy. . . . .OK
Elissa. . . . .a psycho?
WhiteTiger. . . . .or maybe excoriating himself... we don't know what the words are
firespirit. . . . .loving himself...
RevRandy. . . . .OK
RevRandy. . . . .OK
RevRandy. . . . .OK
SunnyMoon. . . . .He actually is talking to someone
firespirit. . . . .getting rid of neg energy
WhiteTiger. . . . .or gathering it... (I've watched some of those folks)
RevRandy. . . . .or maybe a rabbi in prayer, or maybe a factory working trying to keep from going crazy while fastening bolts over and over
RevRandy. . . . .or someone with Tourette's syndrome
firespirit. . . . .it's coping ....in his own way..
Elissa. . . . .we can't know
RevRandy. . . . .the point is, from the behavior alone, we don't know, so
RevRandy. . . . .only the person, himself or herself, knows what it really means
RevRandy. . . . .and only then in the context of how it is unfolding
RevRandy. . . . .in the midst of the patterns of his/her life
WhiteTiger. . . . .we draw parallels, that offer comforting explanation for the strangeness from our own past experience
RevRandy. . . . .but it would all be suppositions
WhiteTiger. . . . .isn't everything suppositions?
firespirit. . . . .so lesson today...is do not judge others..
RevRandy. . . . .what does judgement do for either the judged or the judging?
firespirit. . . . .nothing..
Elissa. . . . .homework: write on the board 100 times "i will not judge others because i have no clue what they're about" LOL
firespirit. . . . .absolutely nothing..
WhiteTiger. . . . .yes... patterns... in the end it always comes to that penultimate reduction, doesn't it?
RevRandy. . . . .should we do that Elissa
Elissa. . . . .no
Elissa. . . . .just pretend to do it :)
fang. . . . .there's only one person i'd like to judge at this point in my life, opps 2
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- nope... cuz doing so would be an expression of self judgement
RevRandy. . . . .no shoulds here - we should not have any
Elissa. . . . .don't should on yourself, randy
WhiteTiger. . . . .there is only the one fit to judge any, imo... and none of us are that one ;)
fang. . . . .i agree wt
fang. . . . . but i told my boss, that if this one client doesn't pay his bill
fang. . . . .i'd love to be the one to go give him a hard time
RevRandy. . . . .IMNSHO judgement is a good example of that energy flow that does not really serve anyone well
bluelight. . . . .however we have to make judgements constantly
firespirit. . . . .depends on what the judgement is used for..
Elissa. . . . .say more, fs?
RevRandy. . . . .ah, there's the bind .... we have to follow up .... but on judgements or opportunities?
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- ever read "inferno", by niven and pournelle? great line in there... "knowing evil is one route to knowing good"
fang. . . . .oh wt,,, hummm
bluelight. . . . .maybe why blue's so good
WhiteTiger. . . . .judgement and it's experiencing may be the means intended for some of us to know it's true place
RevRandy. . . . .and from "They might be giants" - You can't dance with the devil and say you're only kidding"
bluelight. . . . .HAHA
firespirit. . . . .if you have to make a judgement based on personal safety is one thing...but to judge others based on no information is useless..
suwan. . . . .judgement goes both ways, judging something as good as well as judging something as bad
suwan. . . . .if you doubt it, listen in on some political "discussions" this week
WhiteTiger. . . . .bingo suwan!!!!
RevRandy. . . . .suwan - this is intriguing
fang. . . . .well i won't say why i don't like this person
fang. . . . .but it has to do with his dog
RevRandy. . . . .judging what is right, good, etc, is not inherently better
RevRandy. . . . .than judging what is bad, wrong
WhiteTiger. . . . .judgement= "I know what is best... the creator fudged this part up" (imo)
suwan. . . . .also putting blinders on to what is real
RevRandy. . . . .so what are we called to do -- we do have to make choices, to judge in a sense ....
RevRandy. . . . .but if we are not open to questioning our choices, our judgements, then we make ourselves like gods
fang. . . . .but to what they do to those that can't defend themselves????? ( like dogs)
fang. . . . .me not god,,, only flawed human
RevRandy. . . . .fang - that is another whole issue - of what happens to the voiceless (animals, children, many women, minorities, etc)
firespirit. . . . .but didn't we come from god, so if we are part of the god energy why not act like it..
Elissa. . . . .judging limits our own possibilities, i'm thinking... it narrows our perspective... don't ask me to say more about that yet
suwan. . . . .but we are all flawed, judgement just is ranking ourselves in the stakes
RevRandy. . . . .well, here is another PtoP
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1BF:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"Hi. Someone without definite boundaries between energy states is moving
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1along the spiritual evolutionary path. One way you know that you are getting
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1closer to fulfillment is that you sense the receipt of energy from many
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1different sources and planes, not all understood. When all you know is
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1always understood, you are firmly planted in the middle of a complexity
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1level. At first, you say, ‘Wow, where is this energy coming from'
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1(first-timers). Then, slowly, you figure the level out and there are fewer
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1mysteries. But then you begin to see some more unknowns, paradoxes, cundr...
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1conunrdm... dang... puzzles. And you realise that, no matter how much you
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1apply your best thinking and knowing, the understandings will escape
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1you--and likewise.
RevRandy. . . . .0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"You will find, when you are dead centre--or should I say, live centre--you
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1put your energies here in the place you are. In the start, you didn't put
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1them anywhere--scattered, unfocused, amorphous. But with learning and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1remembering, you focused. But then you learn how to direct the focus, and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1then even multiple foci, and then what appears as random. People who are
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1single-minded are at the centre. Those who are clueless are at the depot
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1having tea. And those who seem eclectic... well, figure it out.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"So, here's a simple activity. But first, a cravat... I think not... I
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1mispoke... a caveat... ooooo... as you do this exercise, remember that all
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1outcomes are right. And wherever you find yourself is ok, because being in
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1the infinitely middle place of an infinite process what does it matter. You
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1will still have a path ahead. Hey, why do so many of us get so competitive
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1about getting through this level and moving on. It is NOT A RACE! Ok,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1exercise: using whatever model, mode, materials you wish, chart, graph,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1draw, depict, describe your sources of energy. Then also draw, etc., etc.,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1how energy flows from you... whence... follow the energy and you will
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1discover much. Is it full of knowing, full of questions, full of certainty,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1full of mystery, full of wonder, full of fear... follow the energy and see
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1where you are and are going.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1"The path to self-awareness can be questions like this. Most people think of
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1their lives as a series of places, time, and people. It looks different when
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1one thinks of it through the perspective of energy. Ok, I go. Bye-bye,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1ta-ta." (9/15/2000)
WhiteTiger. . . . .better yet, ignore the energy model and go straight to the relationships (of which energy is only one sort) deal with the raw concepts, devoid of referents, and the patterns of relationship they form
bluelight. . . . .that sounds like a neat exercise.. does she mean paint or write them?
Elissa. . . . .the exercise is to do however you want, blue
fang. . . . .ok then
RevRandy. . . . .this is a simple but awesome challenge
RevRandy. . . . .that BF is offering -
RevRandy. . . . .following the energy of one's life
RevRandy. . . . .not following the activities of one's life
RevRandy. . . . .and I think it presents it completely
RevRandy. . . . .but if, for one day, you were to keep a diary
RevRandy. . . . .not of events
RevRandy. . . . .place
RevRandy. . . . .people
RevRandy. . . . .etc.
RevRandy. . . . .but of how you used your energy - where you felt it flowing in
RevRandy. . . . .and where you felt it flowing out
RevRandy. . . . .what would you see?
bluelight. . . . .good idea
firespirit. . . . .would be interesting to read after a few weeks of logging..
fang. . . . . uptown
bluelight. . . . .seems like i always understand things better when it's explained in terms of energy
RevRandy. . . . .I think it could be very illuminating -- actually I know it could be
RevRandy. . . . .I have been doing a little of this for myself lately
RevRandy. . . . .not writing it down, but thinking this way
fang. . . . .you mean like a flow in and out journal
firespirit. . . . .Yes...sounds like something that should be used as a tool..
RevRandy. . . . .yes, fang ....
bluelight. . . . .well woudn't u have to become aware of things more.. every moment almost
RevRandy. . . . .if we were as scrupulous about our spiritual accounts as we sometimes are
RevRandy. . . . .about our money accounts
RevRandy. . . . .what would we see
WhiteTiger. . . . .unfortunately, I'd have blank pages... I don't deal in energies
Hypernoodle. . . . .lol.....Tiger
Hypernoodle. . . . .You have to deal with me
WhiteTiger. . . . .dealing with and dealing in are different things ;)
Elissa. . . . .wt, maybe you need to consider vitamins :)
RevRandy. . . . .if we had to spiritually "write a check" to give some to someone else -- would we check to see if the check would bounce?
WhiteTiger. . . . .maybe our parents generation would have... folks these days would just whip out the spiritual express card
RevRandy. . . . .spiritual express card -don't leave earth without it
firespirit. . . . .cute
fang. . . . .lol
fang. . . . . can i have a visa
RevRandy. . . . .just a random thought - is religion really just spiritual arbitrage?
RevRandy. . . . .playing the energy markets of the spirit
Elissa. . . . .religion mostly sucks energy from people these days, i think
fang. . . . .amen to elissa
RevRandy. . . . .I want a real Discover card
fang. . . . .me too
Elissa. . . . .arf to fang
fang. . . . . i'll take one of each
WhiteTiger. . . . .ya gotta get yer passport first fang ;)
RevRandy. . . . .re: religion as energy suckers -- any system that cannot sustain itself on its own energy - i.e., be organic - is like that
bluelight. . . . .RR.. i dont' understand
RevRandy. . . . .and religion is notoriously inorganic - unwilling to grow and change
RevRandy. . . . .it is a system which requires the energy of others for its own support and continuation, in general, with a few exceptions
firespirit. . . . .that is why when someone asks my religion I tell them I am spiritual not religious..
RevRandy. . . . .good response -- and I meet many people who say they are not religious, and after we talk I find they are very spiritual
WhiteTiger. . . . .religion is spiritually equivalent to itself in 3D terms... it's a "we will tell you what and when to give to us" deal... there is little of giving in religion, unless yer giving TO the religion
firespirit. . . . .Some people do not understand how I can be spiritual without church...but I can..
WhiteTiger. . . . .much easier than WITH a church, from what I've seen, fire ;)
Elissa. . . . .of course, fs... even more spiritual than many who call themselves religious and cling to dogma!
RevRandy. . . . .Well, folks, my old clock has just struck 11 (10 hurt badly, 1 sustained minor injuries)
RevRandy. . . . .so it is time to go
RevRandy. . . . .but before we do
suwan. . . . .goodnight Rev
RevRandy. . . . .I want to mention that before we gather next Sunday
RevRandy. . . . .I will have the honor of preaching at the ordination of one of us,
RevRandy. . . . .you all may remember ezwind and/or Jimbo who joins us from time to time
RevRandy. . . . .4pm next Sunday he will be ordained into the Unitarian Universalist spiritual tradition as one of my colleagues
suwan. . . . .yes? where is his church rev?
WhiteTiger. . . . .cool RR :)
RevRandy. . . . .so, if you remember him, send along a special bit of energy around 4pm ET
RevRandy. . . . .he is in Maryland
firespirit. . . . .i will send some loving thoughts...RR
RevRandy. . . . .thanks all for the great chat
Elissa. . . . .he's a great guy... and a very good dancer!
Hypernoodle. . . . .Have a good one :)
suwan. . . . .congratulations to him
RevRandy. . . . .will do
Hypernoodle. . . . .night all
SunnyMoon. . . . .Thank you - Great lessons - Good Night all:)
firespirit. . . . .Good RR and Elissa! Lovely and enlightening as always!
Elissa. . . . .thank you all and here's the rainbow song
firespirit. . . . .And goodnight (((((((room)))))))
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 15,12!Elissa rainbow.mid 12,15 :o)
WhiteTiger. . . . .thx RR, Elissa... ya'll have a fun week :)
fang. . . . .night ya'll, love ya
Elissa. . . . .part 2 next sunday!
RevRandy. . . . .thank you all
fang. . . . . puppy kisses to you
suwan. . . . .thank you rev
Elissa. . . . .love all of you wild and crazy guys!
Session Close: Sun Dec 03 23:36:06 2000