log121000

Session Start: Sun Dec 10 20:13:32 2000
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4~ Next 2,7Topic: 2,8"Rikkity's Friends, Part 2" 2,9Sunday 2,11December 10 0,12at 9pm 2,13EDT ~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker, M.Ed., NCC (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

*** RevRandy (bishopbeck@***.washington14.dc.pub-ip.psi.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** bluelight (starlite@***.sedona.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
bluelight. . . . .hi Elissa RevRandy ::::waving::::
RevRandy. . . . .hey blue
Elissa. . . . .hey blue :)
bluelight. . . . .hi Elissa :D
RevRandy. . . . .tonight E and I are doing this at a distance - I am in DC and she is home
*** WhiteTiger (whitetiger@***.door.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
*** firespirit (ADCjava@***.dial.hickorytech.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
RevRandy. . . . .Hey WT
Elissa. . . . .hey wt :) let the games begin!!!
WhiteTiger. . . . .hi RR
firespirit. . . . .Good evening!
Elissa. . . . .hey fs :)
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa :)
Elissa. . . . .we'll start in another minute
RevRandy. . . . .hello fire
Elissa. . . . .we had to wait for you guys!
firespirit. . . . .Hey Randy!
RevRandy. . . . .and if I suddenly disappear it is because I am doing this from a hotel room in DC in netzero, not my usual ISP
Elissa. . . . .demerits for everyone tonight... we don't discriminate lol
bluelight. . . . .me? i was only 4 min. late
bluelight. . . . .sniffing
Elissa. . . . .ok, blue, not you :)
bluelight. . . . .major whew
RevRandy. . . . .Well, HELLOOOOOOOOO everybody
RevRandy. . . . .it is time for SP again, and so welcome ---
RevRandy. . . . .let's look around the circle -
RevRandy. . . . .everyone looks familiar
RevRandy. . . . .so on to the invocation OK
bluelight. . . . .ok
Elissa. . . . .yes
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2And guided in all ways gracious.
RevRandy. . . . .Amen
bluelight. . . . .amen
WhiteTiger. . . . .aho
Elissa. . . . .amen~
bluelight. . . . .:::lighting candle::::
Elissa. . . . .since this is National Children's Memorial Day, i would
Elissa. . . . .like to offer everyone who has been separated by death
Elissa. . . . .from a child the opportunity to say his/her name and
Elissa. . . . .something you have learned since their death...
Elissa. . . . .since everyone is someone's child, i invite those of
Elissa. . . . .you who have been separated from a parent, relative,
Elissa. . . . .spouse, partner, or friend to join us as i begin:
Elissa. . . . .Ericka Brindl Bishop, i have learned how to let go
Elissa. . . . .Milton Kaufman, i have learned to keep my eyes on the horizon
RevRandy. . . . .Ericka Brindl Bishop, I have learned you can never be really separated from someone you are connected to
firespirit. . . . .My Dad, Raymond, I have learned about unconditional love...
WhiteTiger. . . . .Barbara Lynn DeForrest... it's all transitory
bluelight. . . . .my twins Dick and Mark .. i think u came to me so i might become strong and always look to God for my help as u taught me.. and that it is possible to communicate
Elissa. . . . .thank you for sharing your loved ones with all of us... they live on in who you are
firespirit. . . . .Yes....they do....
Elissa. . . . .amen
WhiteTiger. . . . .they live on, period... just elsewhere ;)
firespirit. . . . .peace and love...to all...
firespirit. . . . .amen
Elissa. . . . .tonight we will continue last week's revisit to the
Elissa. . . . .white (or black, or white and black) color of the
Elissa. . . . .SP rainbow...
Elissa. . . . .the category i like to call
Elissa. . . . ."the white pages" because it contains the names and
Elissa. . . . .ponderings of those of Rikkity's friends who have
Elissa. . . . .honored us with their communications...
Elissa. . . . .knowing Rikkity,
Elissa. . . . .i am very sure there are thousands more we haven't
Elissa. . . . .heard from! But tonight is part 2, and my choices from
Elissa. . . . .this category...
Elissa. . . . .and i have a theme for you tonight
Elissa. . . . .that will evolve as we progress through the PtoPs...
Elissa. . . . .so, again in honor of National Children's Memorial Day,
Elissa. . . . .let's begin with these words from one of the wisest,
Elissa. . . . .most compassionate, and most deliciously fun-loving
Elissa. . . . .women i have ever had the joy of calling my friend and guide:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1MW:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"Gracious good day. We have spoken of loss before.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1There is no one who has borne a child who does not know loss.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Many hide it, deny it, sanctify it, rationalize it; but it is
Elissa. . . . . 0,1the reality. We lose them from womb to world, from tit--
Elissa. . . . . 0,1excuse me, but we might have said teat--to table, from crib
Elissa. . . . . 0,1to tavern, from childhood to adult. Some to death and some
Elissa. . . . . 0,1to distance and some to marriage. And some we lose by holding
Elissa. . . . . 0,1so close that we won't lose them, that we then lose them as
Elissa. . . . . 0,1growing spirits.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"The lesson of being human and a mother is the lesson of loss,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1and still the lesson of life. And even those without children
Elissa. . . . . 0,1have a loss--the loss of children not being. To be the
Elissa. . . . . 0,1bringers of life means to be the vessels of loss as well.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1And how well one deals with one is how well they deal with
Elissa. . . . . 0,1the other.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"Loss and life intertwine within all women. Gracious good day
Elissa. . . . . 0,1to you all. Goodbye." (5/5/2000 - W#172)
firespirit. . . . .wow that was lovely...
Elissa. . . . .to me, these moving words are about letting go...
Elissa. . . . .we let our children go in many different ways at
Elissa. . . . .every stage of their development...
bluelight. . . . .so true
firespirit. . . . .Yes..we do..even if it's only to put them on the school bus for the first time...that was a sad day for me..
Elissa. . . . .yes, fs
firespirit. . . . .I cried all the way home...and I wanted more free time for me but was still sad..
bluelight. . . . .is very hard to lose children who still live here
Elissa. . . . .in my work as
Elissa. . . . .a grief counselor, i've found that one of the most
Elissa. . . . .healing activities for those parents who have lost
Elissa. . . . .a child is to remember all of the ways they have let
Elissa. . . . .their child go, how it felt, and what happened afterwards...
Elissa. . . . .what they discover--as i have discovered-- is that
Elissa. . . . .letting go IS the process of growth, and the process
Elissa. . . . .of human life... so, a question for you:
Elissa. . . . .what great lessons has loss taught you about human life?
bluelight. . . . .that i can still survive :D
bluelight. . . . .and b happy
firespirit. . . . .To enjoy children in the moment because change is around the corner..
Elissa. . . . .:)
bluelight. . . . .life is like a streetcar.. who gets on gets off :0
bluelight. . . . .so says leo buscaglia :D
Elissa. . . . .it's very hard, but grief can make us stronger and give us a new joy in living... and we'll explore where else that can lead us as we go on tonight
RevRandy. . . . .you cannot have life without loss unless you also want to have life without love
firespirit. . . . .Yes..I agree my saddest moments have made me stronger...
Elissa. . . . .true, rr
Elissa. . . . .stronger, and more spiritual?
firespirit. . . . .Yes...more spiritual...and my own best friend..
Elissa. . . . .beautiful :)
firespirit. . . . .To learn to love onself is a challenge..
bluelight. . . . .very sad moments leave it open for spirit to hold onto u.. that's when i first knew i wasn't alone
RevRandy. . . . .hmmm --- finding a view outside of aloneness through becoming seemingly alone
WhiteTiger. . . . .parenthood, no more than any other relationship, doesn't confer ownership... it comes with responsibility, but not a deed of title
firespirit. . . . .Yes..I must guide my children but I do not own them..
Elissa. . . . .our children come through us, they are not ours
bluelight. . . . .i knew i didnt' own them before i had them ..still it was so hard
firespirit. . . . .My children are there own ...and they let me know that every day...
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol fs
Elissa. . . . .good for them!
firespirit. . . . .They rebel each day...I do not stifle them, just lead them..
Elissa. . . . .to let our children be who they are is not always easy
firespirit. . . . .Many people I know do not agree with my way, but it's mine...
firespirit. . . . .and it works...
RevRandy. . . . .I have this image of carrying my kids, then walking hand in hand with them, then trying to run to catch up ... now we walk side by side until they day they slow down and help me along
bluelight. . . . .neat RevR..
* WhiteTiger is reminded of the line from that stupid movie "I shall call him mini-me"
Elissa. . . . .mini-me? haha never heard that one
RevRandy. . . . .Austin Powers
Elissa. . . . .ah
WhiteTiger. . . . .from "the spy who shagged me"... different context, but seemed appropriate
firespirit. . . . .They really are to some degree mini adults....and mine at times seem wiser...than myself..
Elissa. . . . .they are souls that just happen to be born after us
RevRandy. . . . .but when we are really connected, spiritually, and have been for several lives, we see so much of us in them, and vice-versa
firespirit. . . . .Ever watch children greet each other..
firespirit. . . . .I do everyday at the bus stop...and they run up to each other and hug..its' beautiful..if you take the time to watch..
Elissa. . . . .:)
Elissa. . . . .and now, a simple yet profound message from a friend we
Elissa. . . . .met last Christmas eve...
Elissa. . . . . 0,1A Venezuelan peasant who died in the mudslides:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"I cry. It is hard. The mud comes and I cannot go.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1I see my family. They are safe, I think. They cry for me.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1I miss them. But my tears are not all sad. They and I
Elissa. . . . . 0,1are separated but not lost. There is a big difference.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1And I have so much that death cannot take. I bring with me
Elissa. . . . . 0,1so much. My wife, I have my years with her even now. And my
Elissa. . . . . 0,1little 'chickies.' I call them that... they are my daughters,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1and every feeling of pride and joy I carry with me.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Nothing can erase the good. The bad we must forgive
Elissa. . . . . 0,1ourselves or else we lose the good, and that which is
Elissa. . . . . 0,1evil destroys itself and is of no concern. So I let go
Elissa. . . . . 0,1and find I keep that which is good, and I cry because
Elissa. . . . . 0,1I never expected to keep so much. In life I had so little,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1I thought, but now I realise I had so much. I hope you
Elissa. . . . . 0,1who are living will see that, too.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"And it is not even what's in the glass, but can you
Elissa. . . . . 0,1cup your hands when you have no glass at all and still
Elissa. . . . . 0,1drink from life's fountain. The hands of prayer should not
Elissa. . . . . 0,1be closed, I see now, but open like drinking from a
Elissa. . . . . 0,1cool stream--the cool stream of life, which is the
Elissa. . . . . 0,1cool stream of meaning. They will say their prayers for me,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1but my body is not found. I will just await them.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1I will cry and move on, drinking what there is here
Elissa. . . . . 0,1for my soul. Adios." (12/24/99 - W#158)
*** journey (ptomli4650@***.ipt.aol.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .hey journey :)
journey. . . . .Hi Elissa, hi Rev
Elissa. . . . .to let go with forgiveness and hope and trust is to keep
Elissa. . . . .the essence of the relationship in the past, present, and future...
Elissa. . . . .if what you had in the past truly belonged to you, it is never lost
Elissa. . . . .because it is always contained in who you are and are becoming--
Elissa. . . . .a surprising lesson for many in grief, and perhaps the greatest
Elissa. . . . .and most irrefutable "proof" we have that life survives death...
Elissa. . . . .and the challenge to us all: can we have "no glass at all and still
Elissa. . . . .drink from life's fountain"...
Elissa. . . . .can we let it all go...
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, the only thing that can belong to you is yourself... and the path that is part of you... everything else is transitory
Elissa. . . . .can we lose
Elissa. . . . .all that we hold dear in physical form, knowing that meaning is
Elissa. . . . .never lost, and in fact becomes even clearer...
Elissa. . . . . can WE be the glass...
Elissa. . . . .and my question to you:
Elissa. . . . .(and that was well said, wt)
Elissa. . . . .how can letting go with forgiveness and hope and trust help us
Elissa. . . . .hold onto what is essential?
Elissa. . . . .i only ask the easy questions, i know LOL
firespirit. . . . .If you do not forgive you become bitter and lonely and do not learn...
Elissa. . . . .oooo good response, fs!
Elissa. . . . .lack of forgiveness keeps us from learning
firespirit. . . . .become wrapped up in the past...
bluelight. . . . .everything else doesn't work
Elissa. . . . .doesn't work
firespirit. . . . .nope
bluelight. . . . .sometimes i think they leave us to teach us these things?
firespirit. . . . .Yes blue I agree..
Elissa. . . . .yes, if we learn those things :)
RevRandy. . . . .I don't believe that we have given lessons like that specifically, but life is full of such lessons and the ones that we look to learn from become the ones that are ours
journey. . . . .i feel not forgiving shuts us off to the opportunity of healing and growing.
Elissa. . . . .it stunts our growth, doesn't it
firespirit. . . . .To heal is wonderful if you can forgive..
journey. . . . .but is hard when in the midst of it to see this.
bluelight. . . . .hard to think your babies died for u.. used to make u cry harder
bluelight. . . . .make ME cry harder.. i always get u and me mixed up lol
Elissa. . . . .it is hard, but that's what makes those lessons so powerful and memorable... or maybe that's why they're hard
firespirit. . . . .Yes..I have learned many things....some harder than others..
WhiteTiger. . . . .the past is the part of ye time line ya can't do anything more about, unless ya know how to break the rules and are willing to do so... hanging onto it and wishing it were different is about like holding a piece of granite and bawling cuz it ain't jade... what is set is set
RevRandy. . . . .but what you do with the future because of what you learned in the past is important
Elissa. . . . .yes, wt... acceptance is key
bluelight. . . . .white tiger u're getting so verbal i love it !!!
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol.. not at my best tonight... it comes out as verbosity
Elissa. . . . .doin' fine, wt :)
bluelight. . . . .no no White
journey. . . . .i think it especially hard to attempt to comfort someone else when "they" cant see it.
firespirit. . . . .Yes..journey...
Elissa. . . . .we have to meet them where they are, journey... even though we want so much to give them what we've learned
bluelight. . . . .right journey
RevRandy. . . . .one thing I learned along the way is that while I have lost a daughter, my experience of that will not be the exact same as someone or anyone else --
firespirit. . . . .Wisdom is a lovely gift...how we receive the gift isn't what we bargained for..
Elissa. . . . .every loss is unique, rr... and uniquely meaningful
bluelight. . . . .RevR but they won't get where u r for a long time so makes it difficult for them to 'b there' what ur'e saying
RevRandy. . . . .exactly -- and I can say what my loss means to me -- but I cannot tell someone else what theirs means to them
firespirit. . . . .Right Randy...but we can listen and send love...
Elissa. . . . .no, and yet all losses have something universal in common, don't they
RevRandy. . . . .blue - even if we have been along the same distance of road, I may have seen it differently
journey. . . . .when you hear loss from someone (especially that of a child, any age) and yet you have not experienced this, i feel so inadequate to comfort, for it raises my own fears some times.
firespirit. . . . .Yes..Elissa the lesson I feel is love..
Elissa. . . . .love is an important one
RevRandy. . . . .we can listen, we can care, we can hug, we can cry, but we cannot solve
bluelight. . . . .yah RR.. i find it very hard to ease someone else that i hardly try anymore.. dont' know
WhiteTiger. . . . .there ya go journey.. it always comes down to some flavor of fear or another, don't it?
firespirit. . . . .Yes..fear is a hard one to overcome...
RevRandy. . . . .I went through a phase where I thought if I could help someone else solve, ease, rest their pain of loss, that would make my own feel less
RevRandy. . . . .doesn't work
firespirit. . . . .works for me sometimes...but not always..
journey. . . . .yes whitetiger, when witnessing raw grief in something not experienced personally in this life it does.
Elissa. . . . .we focus so hard on holding on
Elissa. . . . .as though the physical is all we are... and yet we know that's not true
WhiteTiger. . . . .fear can be whipped... it's nothing more than anticipation of future pain... it can be nipped in the bud by mastering pain (imo)
firespirit. . . . .balance is the key...
bluelight. . . . .what if u just have felt so much that it seems like u dont' feel with people anymore .. like hey they'll get thru it like i did
bluelight. . . . .i feel heartless sometimes only i know i'm not.. confusing
Elissa. . . . .fear can be whipped by facing it and going ahead anyway... that's when you see that fear has no power except what you give to it
journey. . . . .the moment when your heart feels the genuine pain of another, yet a pain you wish never to know, it leaves you thinking.
firespirit. . . . .part of the grief process...blue
Elissa. . . . .blue, i can relate to that
RevRandy. . . . ."we have nothing to fear, but fear itself" .... to which I would add
RevRandy. . . . .when you have suffered what feels like the ultimate loss, you begin to stop fearing it
WhiteTiger. . . . .blue- wisdom there :) the hardest lesson to learn is that their pain is for a purpose...
bluelight. . . . .but that was soo many years ago u'd think i'm thru the ‘process'
firespirit. . . . .grief has no time limit..
Elissa. . . . .o so true, wt :)
Elissa. . . . .and we who are on the other side of that hard pain can be hope for others... i think that is a greater gift than comfort
firespirit. . . . .just when I think I am past all the pain of loss, it's back..
Elissa. . . . .it's a process, fs
firespirit. . . . .Yes...it is...
bluelight. . . . .so is it partly knowing the other people will get thru it too is why u don't panic with them..
Elissa. . . . .yes, blue... and knowing what wonder lies ahead in the healing
WhiteTiger. . . . .shielding them from their pain, or preventing it when it's on their path is nothing less than the biggest ripoff of all, imo
Elissa. . . . .wt, so many griever suffer from being treated like that
bluelight. . . . .i'm so tired of hurting in past i don't even like to hear about others' pain..
bluelight. . . . .which sounds selfish ..
firespirit. . . . .not selfish blue...a part of healing...you have a lot to handle yourself...and don't want to anymore bad news..it's normal.
Elissa. . . . .selfish? maybe... or maybe you're feeling the need to protect yourself right now
bluelight. . . . .thanks fire.. think i needed that .. maybe so elissa thanks
Elissa. . . . .yw
firespirit. . . . .Your welcome..it's hard to heal when you constantly hear bad news..been there..
firespirit. . . . .I even lost some neg. friends because I couldn't handle it...
journey. . . . .without having experienced the loss of a child my advice to this woman was to allow herself to grieve and to allow her family to love her.
Elissa. . . . .good advice, journey
bluelight. . . . .wow journey u must b very empathic to b able to feel with them and say that
journey. . . . .ty elissa, i felt so sad for her.
bluelight. . . . .ok i have one
Elissa. . . . .go for it
bluelight. . . . .when someone in the family needs prayers.. say for surgery a little one i retreat and is very hard to pray
bluelight. . . . .i just kept a vigil .. it was the knowing that he could die that others couldnt' face and i couldn't do anything seemed like
bluelight. . . . .u'd think i'd b the one praying the hardest
Elissa. . . . .blue, it sounds like you were feeling overwhelmed
bluelight. . . . .yah just like when my own needed prayers
Elissa. . . . .brought all of that back
bluelight. . . . .and i didn't know what to do then
bluelight. . . . .YES!!!
firespirit. . . . .flashback syndrome...been there too..
Elissa. . . . .you have to feel what you're feeling until you're ready to let it go
Elissa. . . . .trying to stop it just makes it worse
bluelight. . . . .i felt so guilty for not praying more.. wasn't cuz i didn't have hope tho or belief
bluelight. . . . .i still have a prob with prayer this way
firespirit. . . . .blue it will come in time...
bluelight. . . . .why i dont' like prayer groups.. i don't know how much it works
RevRandy. . . . .maybe prayer is not your style, your way
journey. . . . .well, prayer is different to many people i think
bluelight. . . . .i don't know
Elissa. . . . .you're so hard on yourself, blue... what if you were a friend of yours... what would you say to her?
firespirit. . . . .Yes..me I don't really pray..I have a conversation instead..
bluelight. . . . .i think it might mean more if i played music for them
journey. . . . .there's doing the prayers taught, then there's speaking to your God in your own words, etc
RevRandy. . . . .sometimes prayer is just sitting, quietly, and caring - no specific words
bluelight. . . . .fire i like conversations too yes!
RevRandy. . . . .I like the music idea!
firespirit. . . . .makes me feel god is my friend...
journey. . . . .for some it is sending loving energy.
Elissa. . . . .there are so many ways to pray
Elissa. . . . .remember that prayer is nothing more than focused energy
journey. . . . .i agree elissa
Elissa. . . . .and that doesn't have to be done one way
firespirit. . . . .much the same energy used to talk with a friend...that's the I feel...sometimes more is used at times.
bluelight. . . . .maybe i dont' care that much i dont' know
firespirit. . . . .you will care in time blue...patience is a virtue..
bluelight. . . . .but when i do good things come to me i know that
bluelight. . . . .my son was just in hospital and when i prayed for him a pic came of what to paint a christmas card
bluelight. . . . .i like short prayers
bluelight. . . . .believe God heard u and stop lol
*** Veronica (ADCjava@***.rdu.bellsouth.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .lol blue
Elissa. . . . .hey veronica :)
* Veronica : Hello everyone!
journey. . . . .blue, i am a babbler, even in prayer, lol
firespirit. . . . .hi veronica
bluelight. . . . .well me too if it's a conversation one journey LOL
Veronica. . . . .hi Fs;-)
firespirit. . . . .I am in constant state of chatter myself journey..hehe..
bluelight. . . . .sure is good to have a room u can say all this u can never say to others :0
journey. . . . .yes, i agree blue :)
firespirit. . . . .Yes...blue is a lovely place..
Elissa. . . . .love ya blue :)
bluelight. . . . .:D
RevRandy. . . . .well, even without my trusty clock - I know it is time for a break
RevRandy. . . . .so keep on chatting while we take 10
Elissa. . . . .bbbbbbbrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkk
firespirit. . . . .k
bluelight. . . . .okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk lol
*** Elissa is now known as Elissa_brb
RevRandy. . . . .and we will give Elissa's eyes a little rest --
*** RevRandy is now known as RevRandybrb
journey. . . . .Happy Holidays to you Rev Randy!
RevRandybrb. . . . .Thank you - and to you too - 'tis the season of so many holidays
journey. . . . .yes, that is why i say happy "holidays", cuz everyones can be different :)
journey. . . . .and special
RevRandybrb. . . . .a common human need - to celebrate in this season
journey. . . . .i agree, it is also a tough time for many people.
journey. . . . .the holidays seem to accentuate the feeling of loss or gain.
RevRandybrb. . . . .they do - too many reminders of the past
*** RevRandybrb is now known as RevRandy
*** Elissa_brb is now known as Elissa
Elissa. . . . .ok, well let's get restarted...
Elissa. . . . .no! don't restart your puters lol
*** fang (fang@***.cld.brightok.net) has joined #SpiritualPersistenceRevRandy. . . . .hello fang
Elissa. . . . .hey fang :)
fang. . . . .hi
*** kath (kcade@***.houston.rr.com) has joined #SpiritualPersistence
Elissa. . . . .welcome kath :)
Elissa. . . . .and now, some ideas from someone who has become a dear friend and
Elissa. . . . .trusted guide...
Elissa. . . . .someone who has an extraordinary ability to
Elissa. . . . .communicate the most complex thoughts in a way that we "little
Elissa. . . . .brains" can ALMOST get :)
Elissa. . . . . 0,1LD:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"Good morning... In my life I was often moved from place to
Elissa. . . . . 0,1place by politics and religion. I was seen as valuable for what
Elissa. . . . . 0,1I could make, with their dreams of alchemy in the forefront.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1But what I had most were ideas, and here's a big thought--
Elissa. . . . . 0,1so big it will take thousands of years to understand.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1But, this weekend only, it will be available interest-free
Elissa. . . . . 0,1for all of 2000:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"When the mind focuses on products, then the test of ideas
Elissa. . . . . 0,1is success. But to have success one must then deny all the
Elissa. . . . . 0,1failures. But the ideas that lead to immediate success often
Elissa. . . . . 0,1have more to do with the past. Ideas that challenge the future
Elissa. . . . . 0,1often fail in the present. So, when we speak about the
Elissa. . . . . 0,1equality of ideas we mean the equality of success and failure
Elissa. . . . . 0,1as well; for today's failures may lead to tomorrow's successes.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1And when we create a society of success but try to limit that
Elissa. . . . . 0,1success to a perpetuation of what has been, we deny both
Elissa. . . . . 0,1success and failure. So a new idea comes along, fails, and we
Elissa. . . . . 0,1laugh at the idea only to rue our laughter later; or it is a
Elissa. . . . . 0,1success but we honor it only if it enhances the previous
Elissa. . . . . 0,1collective vision. But the great ideas are those that float
Elissa. . . . . 0,1without either success or failure because they belong to tomorrow.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"But watch, every age is the same: Praise the trivial novelties
Elissa. . . . . 0,1of the ideas, but prosecute and persecute the big ideas of
Elissa. . . . . 0,1transformation. And always remember, the status quo wants ideas
Elissa. . . . . 0,1that appear new but which change nothing.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1And now I go to think of ideas. Remember, most people view
Elissa. . . . . 0,1paradise like home. Few dare to even think of something beyond
Elissa. . . . . 0,1our wildest desires." (1/21/2000 - W#161)
bluelight. . . . .ok.. i'd like an example if u can
kath. . . . .i can
journey. . . . .it's a lot to think about quickly.
Elissa. . . . .when we focus on success--which, LD seems to be saying,
Elissa. . . . .means immediate and concrete gratification--we focus on
Elissa. . . . .the past...
Elissa. . . . .it is from successful campaigns of the past
Elissa. . . . .that marketing wizards and political spin doctors get their
Elissa. . . . .ideas... focus on success and you are looking at what worked
Elissa. . . . .in the past, or what is just different enough to seem novel
firespirit. . . . .For me it's not the success of this life that matters it's the whole journey of evolution..
kath. . . . .my daughter's life was that kind of enigma
Elissa. . . . .and exciting but not new enough to be untested and unfamiliar--
Elissa. . . . .and thus vulnerable to failure...
Elissa. . . . .to get that which is
Elissa. . . . .transformative we need to let go (yep, there's the theme!)
Elissa. . . . .of what we hold onto...
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kath. . . . .yep
Elissa. . . . .let me repeat that
Sanantu. . . . .Hi all*s*
Elissa. . . . .to get that which is
Elissa. . . . .transformative we need to let go (yep, there's the theme!)
Elissa. . . . .of what we hold onto...
firespirit. . . . .hi sana
Elissa. . . . .hey sanantu :)
Elissa. . . . .and my question to you:
Elissa. . . . .what have you learned from your own experience about the
Elissa. . . . .relationship between success and the past, and between
Elissa. . . . .failure and the future?
RevRandy. . . . .hello sanantu
kath. . . . .sorry, for me there is no such thing
Sanantu. . . . .Hello RevRandy*s*
firespirit. . . . .I learn more from failure than success ...
RevRandy. . . . .aha
journey. . . . .i have learned that success is sometimes hidden within failure, for in failure, was i truly open to a new path that brought success.
kath. . . . .amen
Elissa. . . . .o yes!!!
RevRandy. . . . .which is not easy in a society so focused only on success ( or Florida)
firespirit. . . . .The hard road there are more rewards in the end...
Elissa. . . . .and focusing on success leads nowhere new
journey. . . . .lol florida
Elissa. . . . .lol
kath. . . . .amen Elissa
firespirit. . . . .florida again..hehe..
journey. . . . .it's in the looking back that we see the path that we "could" have taken to achieve success
journey. . . . .and so when next presented we are a tich wiser.
Elissa. . . . .ty kath :) but success is much more concrete than the promise of what can be learned through failure, isn't it
RevRandy. . . . .you can always succeed at success -- but to succeed at failure .... and learn and remember - now there's a challenge
kath. . . . .or we see that what we thought was success was not
Elissa. . . . .right, rr :)
RevRandy. . . . .wait a sec ..... where did this concrete come from ....
kath. . . . .it comes in a bag and you mix it with water
firespirit. . . . .sometimes we get stuck in the concrete...hehe..
Elissa. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .yes, kath, and so many reach success only to find disappointment
firespirit. . . . .spend many years and find it wasn't what they thought it would be..
Elissa. . . . .so the lesson here is similar to the lesson of loss, isn't it
firespirit. . . . .Yes..it is..
RevRandy. . . . .did the transition to a material culture, in the industrial revolution, end the old more spiritual culture, and with it bring about the need for concrete solutions instead of ethereal ones?
RevRandy. . . . .I ponder
bluelight. . . . .some people's minds r set in concrete
kath. . . . .((((((some people's minds))))))))
bluelight. . . . .i dont' think so
Elissa. . . . .good question, rr
RevRandy. . . . .you've got me thinking, babe
firespirit. . . . .Some people do not believe in the old ways anymore...it's sad...something was lost years ago..
kath. . . . .it's probably a cyclical thing
bluelight. . . . .what old ways fire
bluelight. . . . .what's cynical kath
Elissa. . . . .perhaps as we learn to deal with grief and loss better, that materialism will be seen in a different perspective
RevRandy. . . . .time to cycle back -- Mr. Scott, we need all the power yee got
Sanantu. . . . .old ways were the way of the Soul...new ways...often the journey of the Ego
firespirit. . . . .I believe there was time in history when people believed in the spiritual more than now..
kath. . . . .the more concrete the collective consciousness seems the more we desire the spirit
fang. . . . .like native american old ways,
bluelight. . . . .depends on how far back we're going doesn't it?
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fang. . . . .uh oh
firespirit. . . . .Yes I have native american ancestors..
fang. . . . .so do i
bluelight. . . . .if u go waaaaay back it was spiritual i hear .. if u go back thru my life it was more material
Elissa. . . . .and we seem to be in a period where spirituality is coming to the forefront again
kath. . . . .yep
journey. . . . .yahoo elissa
firespirit. . . . .Yes E...I hope so..
Elissa. . . . .in a new way
kath. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .i feel that very strongly
kath. . . . .it is
Sanantu. . . . .the world became to a supermarket group....I wonna have...but not do much for it!
Elissa. . . . .right, sanantu, but we all can change that
journey. . . . .I believe people seek, much more now, than in the past.
Sanantu. . . . .right Elissa...it starts with us....here and now!
kath. . . . .yep S
Elissa. . . . .yes san
bluelight. . . . .i experience material when i get my mail :0
Elissa. . . . .lol blue... you get those catalogs too
Elissa. . . . .or is it the bills
kath. . . . .catalogs
bluelight. . . . .YES .. sooo beautiful some of those things.. is it art or materialism??
kath. . . . .both
firespirit. . . . .Bills...junk mail I can throw away..hehe..
journey. . . . .one man's junk, is another's treasure :)
firespirit. . . . .I suppose so journey...
Sanantu. . . . .I live in Thailand, and there you still can see more about the old way....and let me tell you this, the poor here are looking very peaceful and happy. most of them!
firespirit. . . . .lovely sana...
Elissa. . . . .there's the lesson of the glass... materialism has nothing to do with what we're essentially about
bluelight. . . . .we r supposed to create beauty so it does confuse me.. i don't need or want them but i like to create also
firespirit. . . . .creating is beautiful..
bluelight. . . . .Elissa then why do we create ?
journey. . . . .i think we each create all the time.
firespirit. . . . .Because we r part of god..and god created..
Elissa. . . . .art isn't about materialism... it's about self-expression
journey. . . . .creating is an expression of who we are and what we came to experience i think.
Elissa. . . . .i agree, journey
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, materialism is only about getting the physical stuff handled so we can deal with the important bits. Anything more than that is superfluous
Sanantu. . . . .we create in every min....whatever we think, feel or do...it's just a matter of consciousness HOW we create
bluelight. . . . .well r the things in there products of self expression? someone had to make them
firespirit. . . . .it is our nature to create....
bluelight. . . . .but San i create stuff u can touch lolol
Elissa. . . . .yes, wt
firespirit. . . . .mothers create..
Elissa. . . . .blue, the line isn't always so clear is it
bluelight. . . . .sure isn't
* WhiteTiger bites tongue... hard
Sanantu. . . . .sure bluelight...me too....and my dogs too....LOL..can see it everytime after they eat food!
Elissa. . . . .i think it's the focus we're talking about here, not the product :)
firespirit. . . . .Yes...the focus..
Sanantu. . . . .right Elissa
Elissa. . . . .don't draw blood, wt... it's not worth it!
bluelight. . . . .like i dont' need to paint after all all it is is a piece of paper
bluelight. . . . .but why not the paper is sitting there
journey. . . . .i feel creating is on any and all levels of spirit, emotional, mental and physical.
firespirit. . . . .Yes..journey
Sanantu. . . . .we are free to create whatever we want...we have just not to blame others for the result of it!
firespirit. . . . .I agree sana
Sanantu. . . . .so....create what you wish to have in your life....
firespirit. . . . .Yes..
kath. . . . .i create my own reality, we all do
bluelight. . . . .i understand if we create something in the physical it helps us reach Spirit easier sometimes
bluelight. . . . .like take Brahms.. {sigh}
journey. . . . .how so bluelight?
firespirit. . . . .Yes...
WhiteTiger. . . . .imo, none of us create anything... we just make selection from an infinite menu.. but one from column a and one from column b doesn't make us the chef
Elissa. . . . .well, to me materialism means "i have to have that new crocodile belt and if i don't get it i'll feel bad about myself"
firespirit. . . . .anyone writer in the world....lovely creations they create..
journey. . . . .i dont get the correspondence in helping us reach spirit?
journey. . . . ."easier"
firespirit. . . . .materialism can replace spirituality ...
Elissa. . . . .wt, and where does that choice lead us?
kath. . . . .possibly wt, and for this life time selectively choosing from the menu is creative for me
WhiteTiger. . . . .kath- but ya didn't create the selections... nor even yer choice.. ya just opted or what was there.. the creating was already done ;)
Elissa. . . . .and then what, wt?
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- humility.... the hardest one for humans ;)
kath. . . . .i am a participant is this thing called life and "reality"
kath. . . . .and i will take all the help i can get
Elissa. . . . .humility is the journey?
WhiteTiger. . . . .naw.. it's just a way to not keep tripping over the same rocks in the path again and again
Sanantu. . . . .bluelight...are you painting?
bluelight. . . . .yes San
Sanantu. . . . .thats great..I play music...it's creation..healing..expression..touching your Soul and others Soul maybe too!
bluelight. . . . .journey it has to do with reaching the higher realms.. creating is in that realm
Elissa. . . . .it's soul food :)
bluelight. . . . .it is where magic happens
firespirit. . . . .magic lovely..
Sanantu. . . . .and it's a wonderful mirror....you can read about yourself...
bluelight. . . . .yes .. that's why i get mixed up when i c beautiful creations.. whether we have a right to call this materialism
bluelight. . . . .i guess just dont' judge someone else's creation
kath. . . . .ah
firespirit. . . . .I suppose it depends on what your thinking when you buy a lovely piece of art..
journey. . . . .bluelight, i dont understand how "creating something in the physical, helps us reach spirit", i know you have struck a cord with me and want more knowledge
Sanantu. . . . .bluelight....don't stuck on words...we all are material...but it depends with what we are filled....(sorry my english)
Elissa. . . . .that was fine, san :)
Sanantu. . . . .thanks Elissa *s*
bluelight. . . . .journey i wish i could tell u more.. do u know who Brahms is?
journey. . . . .I know composer
bluelight. . . . .yes good :D
fang. . . . .where did rev go???
Elissa. . . . .he got peered :(
kath. . . . .he's getting ready for bed
bluelight. . . . .i have an article about him that would help u understand what i mean only it's long
bluelight. . . . .does anyone else know a word of what i'm trying to describe to journey?
journey. . . . .bluelight, i guess i question the fact that your statement seemed more material, than encompassing to all the levels.
firespirit. . . . .life's a journey not a destination..
bluelight. . . . .well journey just trust me k?
Mi. . . . .journey, when you compose, do you ever wonder where it comes from?
journey. . . . .ok blue, i love ya, so you just gave me homework, lol (((hugs)))
journey. . . . .mi, i am sure it is inspired from spirit, but i feel as well that chopping wood for a chair is equally inspired and also
journey. . . . .that we can attain an original idea a time or two, too..
Mi. . . . .yes, i feel that too...
Elissa. . . . .well, let's keep going and see where this leads us....
Elissa. . . . .here's someone very near and dear to me, my father who also died
Elissa. . . . .in 1995...
Elissa. . . . .he was one of the foremost electrical engineers of his
Elissa. . . . .era, loved the beach, and had a way with language that was playful in
Elissa. . . . .the best sense of the word...
Elissa. . . . .when she was a baby, Rikkity gave him
Elissa. . . . .his name, and he will forever more be known as
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Papa:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"We don't wear anything. We just are. But we can appear to you
Elissa. . . . . 0,1as if in clothes because who wants to look at a bunch of naked
Elissa. . . . . 0,1dead people. It's not the same kind of naked--spiritual,
kath. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . . 0,1but since most of the living don't do spiritual we have to
Elissa. . . . . 0,1translate into physical terms. I am no more than an idea,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1or a thought, but I do wear pants for you.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"Remember, it is a different way of being... and how.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Sort of like energy, but energy is a physical concept.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Ok, ‘engineer Papa' talks. The concept of matter is clearly
Elissa. . . . . 0,1physical, but that Einstein guy showed us... by the way,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1he was Jewish... that matter and energy are the same. E = mc².
Elissa. . . . . 0,1So, if matter is physical and matter is energy, then energy
Elissa. . . . . 0,1is physical. Plus we use physical means to measure energy. Ok.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1So what is all this talk about spirit being of different
Elissa. . . . . 0,1energy or of different frequencies. That's still physical talk.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1People keep trying to explain the spiritual in physical terms
Elissa. . . . . 0,1because they think they understand physical and so then they
Elissa. . . . . 0,1would understand spiritual. But noooooo.
WhiteTiger. . . . .yes... concept... it's what lies beneath everything (imo)
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"The spiritual is not just an extension of the physical,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1or vice versa. It is a different thing altogether. So, if you
Elissa. . . . . 0,1are speaking of spirit in physical terms you are serving your
Elissa. . . . . 0,1own needs for control but not getting with the program.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Rikkity told you: yes, you can get it, and when you get it
Elissa. . . . . 0,1you're out of here. So get hints yes, glimpses yes, pieces
Elissa. . . . . 0,1in your experience, and savor them but don't rationalise them
Elissa. . . . . 0,1(she said it was with an ‘s' because her tommy boyfriends say so).
Elissa. . . . . 0,1But don't rationalise it to your physical terms. What is
Elissa. . . . . 0,1called ‘mystical' is the closest you will get. And that cannot
Elissa. . . . . 0,1be described in physical terms, except by the weak of mind and
Elissa. . . . . 0,1fright-filled of heart.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"So, when people try to link physical and spiritual it is
Elissa. . . . . 0,1always off the mark. Even here we don't get it. But at least
Elissa. . . . . 0,1we have the sense not to try that. Here's a puzzler: In your
Elissa. . . . . 0,1physical world, holism implies connection. But there is a
Elissa. . . . . 0,1holism of spiritual existence which is based on something other
Elissa. . . . . 0,1than connection. I have a sense of it being ‘being' in itself,
Elissa. . . . . 0,1but I don't know. If I did, I would be out of here.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"Remember, connection is a physical notion, ha.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Every notion you have you translate to physical terms. Ta-da.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1That most insightful and complete interpretation of the spiritual
Elissa. . . . . 0,1by a group of people living and learning about being physical
Elissa. . . . . 0,1and spiritual will necessarily be wrong... horribly wrong...
Elissa. . . . . 0,1until they can separate physical and spiritual, and then who
Elissa. . . . . 0,1wants physical and they move on, letting others misexperience
Elissa. . . . . 0,1this transition point. When Rikkity talked of us being
Elissa. . . . . 0,1infinitely in the middle of the process from aloneness and
Elissa. . . . . 0,1total complexity, she meant middle. Here is where the
Elissa. . . . . 0,1former emphasis on physical starts to fade before an emphasis
Elissa. . . . . 0,1on the spiritual. I gotta go." (4/11/2000 - W#168)
WhiteTiger. . . . .{shrug}... in his terminology, amperage and voltage are different things... yet both are aspects of the same root source... imo, concept is the root source for both physical and spiritual
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WhiteTiger. . . . .re RR
fang. . . . .wb rev
RevRandy. . . . .it is sooooo good to be back
Elissa. . . . .wb rr!!! glad you made it!
Elissa. . . . .what we know as physical is related to, but not of the same
Elissa. . . . .stuff (that's the technical term) as the spiritual...
Elissa. . . . .which
Elissa. . . . .is why we cannot fully comprehend it yet... the transition
Elissa. . . . .from being physical to being spiritual is a gradual process,
bluelight. . . . .i understand that one very well.. finally i caught on fast hehe.. still i think we do the best we can
Elissa. . . . .and in order to be spiritual we must let go (there it is again!)
Elissa. . . . .of that which is physical and concrete...
RevRandy. . . . .ahhhhh
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firespirit. . . . .keep an open mind...
Elissa. . . . .over and over again
Elissa. . . . .we are getting the same message in different words and thoughts:
Elissa. . . . .the way to get to the new and transformative and fulfilling and
Elissa. . . . .meaningful is to let go of the old and concrete and disappointing
Elissa. . . . .and trivial...
Elissa. . . . .it is to be willing to fail, to be willing to
Elissa. . . . .lose, to be willing to stop trying to get energy from others
Elissa. . . . .and create our own, to get up off the sofa and find our direction
Elissa. . . . .in a beckoning horizon, to be willing to keep all that is
Elissa. . . . .essential about ourselves and our loved ones and our mutual
Elissa. . . . .journey toward ultimate connection by letting the direction
Elissa. . . . .and the goal and the potential be more important than the specifics...
Elissa. . . . .this, i believe at the moment, is one of the greatest lessons
Elissa. . . . .and purposes of human life...
Elissa. . . . .what do you need to let go?
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- but ya can't let go when yer holding on to a security blankie to ward off yer fears
Elissa. . . . .yes, wt, fear is a biggie!
bluelight. . . . .but when u think of how u get an idea even here ..it's no different than what she described
bluelight. . . . .our ideas r not all our own
kath. . . . .to experience whatever
firespirit. . . . .to let the learning process in..
Elissa. . . . .hey suwan :)
Elissa. . . . .experience
suwan. . . . .hi all
Elissa. . . . .learning
RevRandy. . . . .but one of my biggest fears is that like Thoreau worried, I will come to die and discover that I have not lived (my own life)
kath. . . . .((((RR))))
Elissa. . . . .why is that a "but" rr?
firespirit. . . . .yes...that would be scary...to think you could live someone elses life..
RevRandy. . . . .and security blankets may, in the long run, actually keep us from the security of living life
WhiteTiger. . . . .the more ya let go of, the more ya gain... to gain all, release all
Elissa. . . . .yes! wt
WhiteTiger. . . . .Elissa- lol... think about that one... "all" means all, no holdbacks or hedging
kath. . . . .i'm safe sage from that, no one else would want mine
kath. . . . .i am aware that i choose a challenge
Elissa. . . . .blue, i just saw what you said about ideas... we all inspire each other, on this side and the other :)
Elissa. . . . .lol kath i can relate
bluelight. . . . .yes i think so
Elissa. . . . .blue, and that's only when we're open to listening
bluelight. . . . .only thing is here we tend to want to know WHO and on that side they dont' care who
firespirit. . . . .listening and hearing it can be a challenge in itself..
bluelight. . . . .yes .. want to get more sensitive to listening!!!
kath. . . . .when we are not open and listening i tend to bump my head or ear
Elissa. . . . .let go of being in love with the sound of our own voice? lol
firespirit. . . . .The constant chatter..hehe..
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol
kath. . . . .there's meds for that fs
firespirit. . . . .I wonder if it's my own thoughts half the time..
bluelight. . . . .who is in love with sound of own voice??
Elissa. . . . .lol kath!
journey. . . . .fs, i am with ya, with the constant chatter.
firespirit. . . . .Me..I love to hear myself talk..
bluelight. . . . .i think half the time it is fire hehe
bluelight. . . . .but maybe only half
RevRandy. . . . .(not me) the rev said again and again and again
Elissa. . . . .many of us blue
kath. . . . .lol rev
journey. . . . .no meds, just the q's keep coming.
bluelight. . . . .well maybe RR has a neat deep voice LOLOL
Elissa. . . . .lol
firespirit. . . . .I don't need meds..just have to learn to shut up!
bluelight. . . . .don't take meds for chatter !!!!!!!!!!
journey. . . . .gosh, not me...lololol
bluelight. . . . .woops i'm sorry i'm not a dr.. personal opinion here
RevRandy. . . . .not if your spirit is to speak -- shutting up would be the worst
Elissa. . . . .so, these closing words from another friend we met last Christmas
Elissa. . . . .eve... one who was about to move on:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1WK:
Elissa. . . . . 0,1
Elissa. . . . . 0,1"So make this your holiday wish. Not, 'Next year in Jerusalem'
Elissa. . . . . 0,1or Mecca or Brooklyn, but 'Next time beyond.' And to do that
Elissa. . . . . 0,1you have to be willing to let go of all you treasure and try to keep.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Remember, you move on only when you let go of the past, so to speak.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1Reunions with those of the past will pale when you connect to the
Elissa. . . . . 0,1future--and when you can do that with gratitude, not sorrow.
Elissa. . . . . 0,1And so I move on." (excerpt from 12/24/99 -W#159)
fang. . . . .i'm off to bed, god bless ya'll, i'll cu all next week
firespirit. . . . .bye fang!
bluelight. . . . .nite fang :D
fang. . . . .night
journey. . . . .nite fang
RevRandy. . . . .night fang
Elissa. . . . .nite fang... see you then
*** fang (fang@***.cld.brightok.net) has left #SpiritualPersistence
WhiteTiger. . . . .nite fang :)
Elissa. . . . . "you move on only when you let go"
firespirit. . . . .let the past go and the future will set you free..
Elissa. . . . .and i have no more to say... for the moment LOL
Elissa. . . . .the floor is yours... i'll keep the ceiling
firespirit. . . . .LOL
journey. . . . .many people get so stuck in the past, hard to know what to say to help them.
RevRandy. . . . .you said so much , as have your friends through Rikkity
WhiteTiger. . . . .the past is set... reunite with the future... it's the direction our time arrows point... holding to the past is swimming upstream
firespirit. . . . .to learn to express feelings from the past and let them go is important step
journey. . . . .i believe we see others being stuck as opposed to "ourselves".
WhiteTiger. . . . .good one, journey :)
Elissa. . . . .right, fs... not to forget but to deal and move on
Elissa. . . . .so true, journey
firespirit. . . . .Yes....blocking the feelings only prolongs the process..
journey. . . . .ty wt, seems easier to relate when we see it in others.
RevRandy. . . . .WT - exactly - you'll never get a future worth having looking to the past
bluelight. . . . .swimming upstream is good way to c it white thanks
suwan. . . . .well I keep feeling that the past comes and grabs me and pulls me back into it
suwan. . . . .the old one step forward two steps back routine
bluelight. . . . .suwan i didnt' c u come in .. hi
suwan. . . . .I'm very sneaky
journey. . . . .((suwan)))
bluelight. . . . .me too suwan
Elissa. . . . .suwan that's the process... it's not a straight line
kath. . . . .i don't know about that suwan, for me there are differing levels of sorrow and re connecting
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- imo, yer gonna get the future ya were handed as yer path, regardless.. but ignoring the upcoming parts is what makes it fun enough to keep doing it ;)
Elissa. . . . .as long as you're moving you're not stuck
RevRandy. . . . .but in this case, daring sometimes to step back one step to step forward two, to let go so we can go on
journey. . . . .I personally think it's always easier to see "others", it's in our quiet moments we relate and question if it fits us.
Elissa. . . . .journey, for me those moments are not usually so quiet!!! lol
firespirit. . . . .Me either E...
journey. . . . .(((elissa))))
journey. . . . .((((firespirit)))
Elissa. . . . .((((journey))))) i love hugs :)
firespirit. . . . .Thanks for the hug..... :)
journey. . . . .me too!
RevRandy. . . . .WT - I think we are handed a book of maps for our lives -- all of which could become our lives - opportunities - but they are all ours, not someone elses.
RevRandy. . . . .so, we opt for one of those many paths, but all of them are ours
bluelight. . . . .so hey suwan we're not stuck !!
Elissa. . . . .nope you're not!
suwan. . . . .well it sure feels stuck
kath. . . . .(((suwan))))
firespirit. . . . .I find bumps in the road but not stuck for a long time..
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- we differ on that one... the ones ya don't take as "you" are someone else's, imo
bluelight. . . . .know what u mean suwan
RevRandy. . . . .I get stuck in the road when someone else throws their gum on the pavement
firespirit. . . . .LOL RR
firespirit. . . . .That is a bummer..
kath. . . . .sometimes it sucks or its gummy whatever
journey. . . . .I swear i go thru life as happy idiot.
RevRandy. . . . .WT - I think I am multiple dimension enough - I mean an infinite creator could give me many facets -- that they are all mine
bluelight. . . . .but RR maybe u created them doing it?
WhiteTiger. . . . .RR- again we differ... the "you" of here is not the "you" that gets the overview experiences
RevRandy. . . . .the "me" of here is many "me's" of here ( but not a mini-me of here)
WhiteTiger. . . . .lol RR
Elissa. . . . .well, folks, next sunday will be our grand finale and i hope you will all be here!!! it should be quite a show!
firespirit. . . . .I will be here next sunday would not miss it for the world!!!!!
RevRandy. . . . .YEP -- time to call it a night and wait for the grand finale --- I am working with MCP and LD on some fireworks
firespirit. . . . .Cool!
Elissa. . . . .we'll be sending you songs and pictures to go along with the chat!
journey. . . . .Thank you Rev Randy and Elissa for a great thought provoking chat as usual!
RevRandy. . . . .so see y'all then (same time, same channel)
firespirit. . . . .Good night all..Have a great week!!
kath. . . . .nite and thank you suwan for sharing your feelings
Elissa. . . . .thanks to all of you for making this evening so fun and meaningful for me!
bluelight. . . . .o nooooo another great nite coming to an end?? sniff
Elissa. . . . .here's the rainbow song once more
bluelight. . . . .no u made it that way for us E and RR
bluelight. . . . .no all of us did .. i get so mixed up hehe
Elissa. . . . .thank you
firespirit. . . . .time flies when having fun....
[SOUND]
* Playing txplay20.mrc to #SpiritualPersistence with 50ms delay
Elissa. . . . . 0,10!Elissa rainbow.mid 10,0 :o)
WhiteTiger. . . . .yup... time to close it up... need to check tomorrow's weather then hit the hay
journey. . . . .I gotta go, hubby needs the puter, love and light to everyone!
firespirit. . . . .((((((((room))))))))
WhiteTiger. . . . .hasta la poofers folks :)
Elissa. . . . .love to hyper, wt
bluelight. . . . .thanks again Elissa for all your help
Elissa. . . . .yw, dear blue :)
bluelight. . . . .cu later .. nite nite
suwan. . . . .bye bye
suwan. . . . .rev and E
RevRandy. . . . .night all
Session Close: Sun Dec 10 23:03:52 2000