log122699

Session Start: Sun Dec 26 20:47:58 1999
*** Now talking in #SpiritualPersistence
*** Topic is ' 2,4”Christmas Past, Present, and Future” 2,9Sunday 2,11at 0,129pm 2,13EST~ 0,2Hosted by Rev. Dr. Randolph Becker & Elissa Bishop Becker (and Rikkity). URL: www.spiritualpersistence.com '

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RevRandy. . . . .Hello everybody
RevAngelsHorizons. . . . .good evening rev randy
RevRandy. . . . .Hey RAH
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Elissa. . . . .ta-da!
RevRandy. . . . .and here she is .....
Elissa. . . . .hi everybody! wow so many new people! i'd better go get the intro
RevRandy. . . . .so welcome to one and all
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RevRandy. . . . .welcome to you all - we see many new nicks on the list, and give you a special welcome to Spiritual Persistence
RevRandy. . . . .we hope you will also drop by our website www.spiritualpersistence.com
Elissa. . . . .i'm back... hi kath and sharon :)
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RevRandy. . . . .With so many people with us for the first time, Elissa will share a little of the history of SP
Elissa. . . . .would you like that now randy?
RevRandy. . . . .sure - let's share the intro - and then we can all introduce ourselves
Elissa. . . . .RevRandy has been a Unitarian Universalist minister for
Elissa. . . . .almost 30 years, with a thriving congregation in
Elissa. . . . .Williamsburg, VA.
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Elissa. . . . . I am a writer, medium, and published poet, and
Elissa. . . . .am currently a Masters candidate in Community Counseling
Elissa. . . . .at the College of William and Mary.
Elissa. . . . .My and RevRandy's daughter, Ericka (now known as Rikkity in spirit)
Elissa. . . . .died in an automobile collision with a drunk driver
Elissa. . . . .on August 20, 1995.
Elissa. . . . .She was 20 years old, and going into
Elissa. . . . .her junior year at Yale. 8 days after her death, RevRandy
Elissa. . . . .and I began communicating with her.
Elissa. . . . .Spiritual Persistence is Rikkity's name for that body of
Elissa. . . . .wisdom she has shared with us in the form of Points to
Elissa. . . . .Ponder.
Elissa. . . . .It is a unique vision of the nature of spiritual
Elissa. . . . .and physical existence, of the continuity between life
Elissa. . . . .and death, of connection,
Elissa. . . . .and of our place in the universe.
Elissa. . . . .And it is guidance we follow that has helped us to learn,
Elissa. . . . .to heal from grief, and to live better lives.
Elissa. . . . .We are here to
Elissa. . . . .share this wisdom with you and to explore what it means
Elissa. . . . .to you personally, as we learn from one another on this journey.
Elissa. . . . .If you have any further questions, please feel free to
Elissa. . . . .private message (pm) anyone with an "@" in front of their name
Elissa. . . . . or email Randy or me anytime. Thanks
Elissa. . . . .for coming...and again, welcome!
Elissa. . . . .*
RevRandy. . . . .Yes - welcome to y'all - and glad you are here -
RevRandy. . . . .what we generally do is say hi at the beginning of the first hour, and then after an invocation
RevRandy. . . . .explore some point to ponder from SP
RevRandy. . . . .with general discussion
Elissa. . . . .does anyone have any questions before we begin?
RevRandy. . . . .seeing no questions (there is always time for questions as we go on)
RevRandy. . . . .please join the spirit of these simple words of invocation
RevRandy. . . . .May we be connected to all things loving
RevRandy. . . . .Protected from all things evil
RevRandy. . . . .And guided in all ways gracious. Blessed Be.
Elissa. . . . .amen~
kath. . . . .amen
common. . . . .amen
Mtsea. . . . .Amen
harmony7. . . . .amen
Sharon. . . . .amen
mikkanne. . . . .amen
tuki. . . . .Amen
* Sharon wants elissa to notice I am here early. No demerits for me!
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RevRandy. . . . .(sharon - make Elissa take out her book right now and make a note of that)
* Elissa pastes a big gold star on sharon's forehead
Sharon. . . . .ok elissa thank you elissa
Elissa. . . . .:)
Sharon. . . . .*phew*!
RevRandy. . . . .As Elissa mentioned in the introduction, we have on-going communications with our daughter, known as Rikkity in spirit
RevRandy. . . . .On December 24th we had such a communication
RevRandy. . . . .and we wanted to share that with you ....
RevRandy. . . . .And we need to tell you something about
RevRandy. . . . .the conversations that she "schedules" with us for 9:30am on Fridays once in a while
RevRandy. . . . .these always are times when she brings spirit guests to converse with us
RevRandy. . . . .so last Friday, at 9:30am, this is what she shared ....
RevRandy. . . . .and I am going to divide the messages up - for each of them has its own meaning
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Rikkity: "I be at the beach, mon. No problem. And with no lights in the palm
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1trees it is very authentic. And now for today I give a nod to another great
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Unitarian, Mr. Chas. Dickens. And so, here are my guests. First, one who
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1needs no introduction."
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RevRandy. . . . .So, our session began, and we were greeted by:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2GW:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Good morning, dear friends. I used to like to sit by the dying fire on
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Christmas Eve and take stock of my life's passage since I last so sat.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Somehow the embers burning low would both warm and chill me. I was warmed by
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2the passage of time, so filled with loving comrades, and life so generous to
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2me and my family. In each coal's eye I could sense the warm heart of
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2another. And so I would be lost in reverie. But then, too, each ember would
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2also remind me of how each piece had once been a great and living tree and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2had its own vitality; and now before my eyes each was fading towards
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2oblivion. So much that was is going. I lose so much each year. Another dear
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2soul departed, another lost to the mind's vagaries, another to the agonies
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2of death's lingering grip. So I am warmed but chilled. Tomorrow the blaze
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2will burn high again, and so it is each day; but at the midnight hour the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2embers twinkle out and I feel more alone. It's a turning of my years. And
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2yet I know that Christmas is about what lies ahead, so I live on with loss
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2but with hope. May your feelings of loss always be tempered with hope. I go
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2back to my fireside and wish you a good Yuletide."
RevRandy. . . . .this was our message from GW, a spirit of the past
RevRandy. . . . .I wonder if anything in his words strike home for you this season?
Sharon. . . . .yep, they sure do
RevRandy. . . . .what is that Sharon
Sharon. . . . .the so called 'loss' of my brother, and remembering christmases past
RevRandy. . . . .it is tough time, that way, isn't it
Sharon. . . . .been a ruff christmas this year
RevRandy. . . . .I can imagine -- been there
Sharon. . . . .but I am stronger because of it
RevRandy. . . . .how so, stronger
Sharon. . . . .I know he still lives randy
Sharon. . . . .and he has been a support since he crossed
RevRandy. . . . .ah - the recognition you did not know before this
Sharon. . . . .yep, I helped him cross
Elissa. . . . .((((((sharon))))))
Sharon. . . . .cause I know he was only changing his form, not dying
RevRandy. . . . .that's quite a learning, isn't it
Sharon. . . . .u betcha randy
RevRandy. . . . .maybe it is the essential learning as we try to make more sense out of life and death
Elissa. . . . .transitions are so hard and it's so hard to come to peace with them, especially at this time of year
Elissa. . . . .even though we know it's the natural flow of life... from tree to coal to fire
Sharon. . . . .It is the memories that we shared that bring up tears
Sharon. . . . .I am so grateful for them
Earle. . . . .Stronger---well I only feel worse this time of the year
Elissa. . . . .watching the embers die is always difficult... we want so much to hold on
RevRandy. . . . .this can be the toughest time, Earle, for many of us
Earle. . . . .yes
RevRandy. . . . .we realise that nothing will be the way it had been
Elissa. . . . .when we can balance the pain with gratitude and hope, that's when we begin to heal
RevRandy. . . . .I am reminded of Rikkity said about hope - about it being a sense that after what ever happens, there can still be meaning - even if we lost something precious
RevRandy. . . . .we can still make meaning even on the other side of the most profound loss
Earle. . . . .I don't want to heal I want to miss them----I'm sorry
RevRandy. . . . .healing does not mean you have to give up missing them
Elissa. . . . .earle sometimes people feel that the end of pain means the end of their connection with their loved one
Earle. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .we will always miss them
Elissa. . . . .and it will always hurt... i think what we learn is that the missing and the healing can coexist
Elissa. . . . .there doesn't need to be a choice between one or the other
tuki. . . . .I believe our son is very much part of our lives but would like to understand more of this change in our lives
Elissa. . . . .change is the process, tuki... what are you trying to understand?
tuki. . . . .different messages that I feel from him and don't know how to interpret them
RevRandy. . . . .sometimes, tuki, we have to take in what we receive and not immediately understand it
mikkanne. . . . .how did you first begin to communicate with your daughter?
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Elissa. . . . .when she died, i felt her with us right away,
RevRandy. . . . .we just decided (Elissa brought it up) to try and communicate with her
mikkanne. . . . .did you seek her or did she seek you?
Elissa. . . . .it was mutual, mikkanne as all communications are
RevRandy. . . . .is it possible to tell?
Elissa. . . . .i felt we both needed to continue communicating, even though she had died
mikkanne. . . . .well...this is new o me...but when my friend died I felt him with me in the room
Elissa. . . . .then he was there :)
RevRandy. . . . .!
mikkanne. . . . .that he had sought out me
RevRandy. . . . .and you were open to him
mikkanne. . . . .and many times especially when I am saddened I find his letters in places other than where I put them
RevRandy. . . . .we do get signs - in many ways -
Elissa. . . . .that's wonderful mikkanne
mikkanne. . . . .and it is just what I needed to lift me up
mikkanne. . . . .well I want to talk more with him so that is why I am here ..to learn
Elissa. . . . .that's great mikkanne... and anyone interested in learning to communicate with spirit needs to go to www.spiritspace.net... there are great classes there
Elissa. . . . .tuki, anything specific you want to ask people about?
tuki. . . . .how do we find our guides and their names?
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Elissa. . . . .tuki, they often come to us in dreams... start to keep a dream journal
Taddy. . . . .Hey there..........
Elissa. . . . .hi taddy
RevRandy. . . . .I have one spirit guide whose name I do not know - but I met him long ago in a dream sequence, and he has returned
tuki. . . . .it's hard to remember them for me
mikkanne. . . . .so you have several guides?
RevRandy. . . . .I do - with Rikkity as my most familiar one now - but my other still comes to me often
Elissa. . . . .we have many guides
mikkanne. . . . .ok thanks
Elissa. . . . .and our guides change as our needs and growth changes
RevRandy. . . . .just like on this side - some people inform us at one stage of life, and others at other stages
RevRandy. . . . .but they remain as parts of us
Elissa. . . . .GW is one of our guides, along with rikkity and many of her friends
mikkanne. . . . .this is so different than what I was raised to believe in...conservative religion
tuki. . . . .thought it was one guide that stayed with you always
Elissa. . . . .tuki, i believe one is with you always, but others come and go
kath. . . . .GW expressed the melancholy i feel
Elissa. . . . .((((((kath)))) this session left me in tears... but also with hope
kath. . . . .yes i remember that feeling
kath. . . . .keeps me holding on and hanging in there
RevRandy. . . . .I also remember right after Rikkity died, thinking "hey, what's the point of it all, if this is what can happen?" but then finding the hope to see beyond that
RevRandy. . . . .almost like those embers, small reminders of her came to me, that made me see her again
kath. . . . .i appreciate GW because he validates my human beingness
tuki. . . . .I think hope and faith have to go together
Elissa. . . . .he speaks to the best human-ness in all of us i think
RevRandy. . . . .faith, hope, love .... the classic three
mikkanne. . . . .the greatest is love
tuki. . . . .love is always there
Elissa. . . . .love = energy and energy is all there is!
kath. . . . .the driving force of the universe
RevRandy. . . . .I would agree - but I think they exist as facets of the same reality - as Elissa says - Energy
RevRandy. . . . .a belief in that power, a feeling of the universality and eternity and infinity of that power, and the expression of that power
RevRandy. . . . .faith, hope, and love
Elissa. . . . .when we open to the love of the universe, all the energy we need becomes available
kath. . . . .i was just visualizing that
kath. . . . .i saw myself, "plugging in to love"
kath. . . . .lol
kath. . . . .thats how low i am
RevRandy. . . . .it is infinite, and there is no meter on it
RevRandy. . . . .free for the asking
Elissa. . . . .kath, that's what we need to do!
Elissa. . . . .recharge those batteries lol
Elissa. . . . .the hope, rikkity says, is what allows us to change... it's what allowed us to communicate
RevRandy. . . . .one of the challenges of the pain of loss is to have even a glimmer of that hope that allows us to open ourselves to that
RevRandy. . . . .Let me share some more of the session from the other day ... ok?
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Rikkity: "He is so cool. I will get him an electric blanket. And now
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1another, and be patient with him. He's new here and we have to translate for
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1him. He doesn't know the conventions. He's never been to a convention, not
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1even a seminar or workshop. He once was part of a triad (group discussion).
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Here he is."

RevRandy. . . . . 0,3"I cry. It is hard. The mud comes and I cannot go. I see my family. They are
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3safe I think. They cry for me. I miss them. But my tears are not all sad.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3They and I are separated but not lost. There is a big difference. And I have
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3so much that death cannot take. I bring with me so much.
RevRandy. . . . .I want to stop this here for a few minutes - he has more to say
RevRandy. . . . .but I want to highlight that line: "They and I are separated but not lost."
Elissa. . . . .yes!
RevRandy. . . . .what a recognition
tuki. . . . .that line got me too
RevRandy. . . . .that separation - of place, time, life, death - is not a losing ultimately
Elissa. . . . .let's stop saying we've "lost" our loved ones, and say we are physically separated... if love persists then there is no loss
Mtsea. . . . .I like that!
Elissa. . . . .thanks mtsea :)
RevRandy. . . . .yep - I know that Rikkity may be many things, but she is not lost
kath. . . . .yep, nor are we
kath. . . . .though sometimes i feel that
kath. . . . .sadness
tuki. . . . .that makes sense
Elissa. . . . .we may lose it sometimes, but we aren't lost lol
kath. . . . .yep
RevRandy. . . . .But, how can this person speak of this having just undergone the great separation
RevRandy. . . . ."I have so much that death cannot take" he says
RevRandy. . . . .Can we, the living, who remain, can we also say this "I have so much that death cannot take."
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mikkanne. . . . .sure...memories...and love for that person
RevRandy. . . . .the things that a death cannot destroy
Elissa. . . . .even in counseling, professionals are beginning to understand that grief is not something to be "gotten over" or even "resolved"...
Elissa. . . . .it is something to be integrated into our lives and will always remain and forever change us
Earle. . . . .Amen
tuki. . . . .wow Elissa I feel that so very much
Elissa. . . . .the professionals are finally catching up to what people really feel
mikkanne. . . . .of coooourse one never gets over it. I agree with you there
RevRandy. . . . .it is like any other experience of life - not something to be wrapped up and hidden away
mikkanne. . . . .and we can help others as they experience it
mikkanne. . . . .because we have felt the loss too
Elissa. . . . .yes mikkanne, and that can be so healing
RevRandy. . . . .if we do try to resolve it and pack it away, think about what that implies about the love we claimed to have had - that it can be ended, wrapped, put away - I know mine can't
Elissa. . . . .no one's can
mikkanne. . . . .nor mine
RevRandy. . . . .so, hear what our speaker goes on to say:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3My wife, I have my years with her even now. And my little ‘chickies.' I call them that... they
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3are my daughters, and every feeling of pride and joy I carry with me.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3Nothing can erase the good. The bad we must forgive ourselves or else we
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3lose the good, and that which is evil destroys itself and is of no concern.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3So I let go and find I keep that which is good, and I cry because I never
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3expected to keep so much. In life I had so little, I thought, but now I
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3realise I had so much. I hope you who are living will see that, too.
RevRandy. . . . .I never expected to keep so much ......
RevRandy. . . . .he speaks of what he has kept through the passage, not what is lost
RevRandy. . . . .And I remember that awareness .... after I thought I lost all that was of meaning, and then slowly seeing how much I kept
RevRandy. . . . .how much could not be taken away, or lost
RevRandy. . . . .does any of this strike any of you in a special way?
Elissa. . . . .yes, randy
Elissa. . . . .we learn... i learned... that the relationship i had was not separate from me...
Elissa. . . . .it was not gone when rikkity was gone... it is with me, and in me, and always has been
RevRandy. . . . .our friend continues:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3"And it is not even what's in the glass, but can you cup your hands when you
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3have no glass at all and still drink from life's fountain.
RevRandy. . . . .the old "half-empty, half-full" analogy taken to a new level - what if you have no glass (or feel like you have none)
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3The hands of prayer should not be closed, I see now, but open like drinking from a cool
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3stream--the cool stream of life, which is the cool stream of meaning. They
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3will say their prayers for me, but my body is not found. I will just await
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3them. I will cry and move on, drinking what there is here for my soul.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3Adios."
RevRandy. . . . .The visual image I get of hands open to receive, to cup the meaning, not closed to contain it
RevRandy. . . . .it was so moving to me
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Gus. . . . .Hello all
Elissa. . . . .hi gus
RevRandy. . . . .hi gus
Elissa. . . . .jsp you're very quiet tonight :)
jsp. . . . .just trying to catch up!
jsp. . . . .LOL!
Elissa. . . . .ok lol
RevRandy. . . . .how about for the rest of you - has he spoken to where you are in the present?
tuki. . . . .think i got lost a bit myself...why the tears?
jsp. . . . .((((tuki))))))
RevRandy. . . . .why his tears .... or yours, or both, tuki
jsp. . . . .you ok tuki?
* tuki will Be Right Back (brb)
tuki. . . . .both
jsp. . . . .((((tuki))))))
Elissa. . . . .((((((tuki))))))
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kath. . . . .what is his name Rev?
RevRandy. . . . .we don't know -
kath. . . . .i really like him
kath. . . . .so eloquent and raw at the same time
Elissa. . . . .hey sharr!
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Sharross. . . . .Hey 'Lissa Merry Christmas
Elissa. . . . .merry christmas, sweetie :)
RevRandy. . . . .Rikkity says some more about him:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Rikkity: "Wait till he gets a taste of ambrosia. He is a peasant from the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1mudslides [in Venezuela]. He was very poor but very rich *wink wink*.
jsp. . . . .ah
Elissa. . . . .lol
jsp. . . . .sounds like he's in the process of finding out just how rich :) -- marvelous!
Elissa. . . . .yes, and he shared his revelation with us
RevRandy. . . . .so he is in the midst of it all -- and reflecting on the loss from the other side
Elissa. . . . .i love the part about forgiving ourselves the bad
RevRandy. . . . .it is now 10, and time for our break - but before we take about a 8.1285435 minute break
RevRandy. . . . .I will recap the whole of what he had to say:
Elissa. . . . .o good randy
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3"I cry. It is hard. The mud comes and I cannot go. I see my family. They are
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3safe I think. They cry for me. I miss them. But my tears are not all sad.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3They and I are separated but not lost. There is a big difference. And I have
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3so much that death cannot take. I bring with me so much.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3My wife, I have my years with her even now. And my little ‘chickies.' I call them that... they
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3are my daughters, and every feeling of pride and joy I carry with me.
RevRandy. . . . .
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3Nothing can erase the good. The bad we must forgive ourselves or else we
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3lose the good, and that which is evil destroys itself and is of no concern.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3So I let go and find I keep that which is good, and I cry because I never
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3expected to keep so much. In life I had so little, I thought, but now I
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3realise I had so much. I hope you who are living will see that, too.
RevRandy. . . . .
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3"And it is not even what's in the glass, but can you cup your hands when you
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3have no glass at all and still drink from life's fountain.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3The hands of prayer should not be closed, I see now, but open like drinking from a cool
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3stream--the cool stream of life, which is the cool stream of meaning. They
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3will say their prayers for me, but my body is not found. I will just await
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3them. I will cry and move on, drinking what there is here for my soul.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,3Adios."
RevRandy. . . . .and as Rikkity would say - ponder that.
jsp. . . . .marvelous
Elissa. . . . .poetry
RevRandy. . . . .without a name, or initial - just one of us
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RevRandy. . . . .welcome tapol - we are just starting a short break - back in about 7 minutes - but keep on talking
tadpol. . . . .ok thank you :)
jsp. . . . .so when people ask if they miss us too - the answer can be a truthful yes :).... there's that
jsp. . . . .neat
Gus. . . . .who wrote that
Elissa. . . . .o yes, jsp... rikkity told us that in the beginning too
jsp. . . . .neat :)
Elissa. . . . .gus that was a peasant who died in the mudslides in venezuela
RevRandy. . . . .we meet some amazing spirits along the way
jsp. . . . .so i'm guessing - this is Christmas Present???
jsp. . . . .where can I catch up with Christmas Past??? :)
RevRandy. . . . .yep - this was our Christmas present from her
jsp. . . . .(scrambling to catch up , ya see)
kath. . . . .i really believe that "nothing can erase the good, and that which is evil destroys itself and is of no concern..."
jsp. . . . .isn't that beautiful kath?! :D
* Elissa writes in her book... 1 demerit for sandy... o forget it she's always late! LOL
RevRandy. . . . .you want Christmas past .... ok:
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2"Good morning, dear friends. I used to like to sit by the dying fire on
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Christmas Eve and take stock of my life's passage since I last so sat.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2Somehow the embers burning low would both warm and chill me. I was warmed by
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2the passage of time, so filled with loving comrades, and life so generous to
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2me and my family. In each coal's eye I could sense the warm heart of
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2another. And so I would be lost in reverie. But then, too, each ember would
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2also remind me of how each piece had once been a great and living tree and
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2had its own vitality; and now before my eyes each was fading towards
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2oblivion. So much that was is going. I lose so much each year. Another dear
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2soul departed, another lost to the mind's vagaries, another to the agonies
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2of death's lingering grip. So I am warmed but chilled. Tomorrow the blaze
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2will burn high again, and so it is each day; but at the midnight hour the
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2embers twinkle out and I feel more alone. It's a turning of my years. And
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2yet I know that Christmas is about what lies ahead, so I live on with loss
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2but with hope. May your feelings of loss always be tempered with hope. I go
RevRandy. . . . . 0,2back to my fireside and wish you a good Yuletide."
RevRandy. . . . .from our friend GW
jsp. . . . .wow - that's a biggie
jsp. . . . .that's a rather heavy one actually....
jsp. . . . .(still pondering)
RevRandy. . . . .it is - pithy, as R would say
jsp. . . . .(thanks for the re-run on Christmas Past Rev!!!)
RevRandy. . . . .(yw)
RevRandy. . . . .so, we have had Christmas past, and Christmas present .... class, what is next
RevRandy. . . . .anyone
RevRandy. . . . .anyone
jsp. . . . .um
Elissa. . . . .um... duh...
kath. . . . .a midi
jsp. . . . .I know! I know!
jsp. . . . .LOL kath!
Elissa. . . . .yes! a midi lol
Sharross. . . . .hahaha
kath. . . . .lol
Elissa. . . . .lol
jsp. . . . .[drum roll..... for RevR.....]
RevRandy. . . . .but seriously
Elissa. . . . .what could it be????
kath. . . . .midi withdrawal?
jsp. . . . .can't stand it...
Elissa. . . . .lol kath!
kath. . . . .is break over?
kath. . . . .sorry rev
kath. . . . .i will try to be good, elissa got me going
Elissa. . . . .you are good kath! i love it!!!
jsp. . . . .[another drum roll.... louder this time..... go for it RevR]
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1now another treat. Someone about to go back. 54 percent clocked, ha."
jsp. . . . .is that a teaser?
Elissa. . . . .that's rikkity
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6"It is not about intelligence. If it were, we could live in peace and love;
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6for all the world's troubles are caused by less than 1 percent, and we get 3
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6to 5 to work with. So, I will return to a point yet to be, and what will I do.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6I will look for the largest and widest view of all things. I will scan
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6the horizon for new horizons. I will try to see a greater, not a lesser good.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6I will try to picture what can be, not what I need and/or want. And,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6if enough join me, then we will all advance. But the sad news is that when
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6we have learned to do this we will be dealing with other issues elsewhere.
RevRandy. . . . .hmmm .... dealing with other issues elsewhere
RevRandy. . . . .maybe we need to talk about that before we go on
jsp. . . . .ok
Elissa. . . . . I will try to picture what can be, not what I need and/or want.
Elissa. . . . .that, too :)
RevRandy. . . . .first, going back to his/her beginning .... if only 1 percent cause the trouble, and we have 3-5 to work with .....hm
RevRandy. . . . .does this imply that we are all that is stopping us from moving beyond those troubles - our lack of focus?
RevRandy. . . . .hmmm .... dealing with other issues elsewhere
Elissa. . . . .lack of focus randy? say more please
jsp. . . . .what comes to me is that the other 2-4 percent out number the 1 troublesome ones... if we could just get it together we do outnumber them, maybe?
Elissa. . . . .i agree, jsp... we need to stop focusing on that 1 percent and put them into perspective
RevRandy. . . . .we have the capacity to do more than we do .... and two concepts come to mind - openness and focus
jsp. . . . .ah - ok
RevRandy. . . . .and they are not opposites (as many would think)
RevRandy. . . . .to focus our attention (energy, love) etc in ways that respond to the larger values
RevRandy. . . . .is what we need to do ....
Elissa. . . . .yes
RevRandy. . . . .if we dissipate them in a large field ... they are lost
RevRandy. . . . .if we focus them in a narrow field, they are meaningless
RevRandy. . . . .but to focus our potential while being as open as possible is to maximize what we can do with what we have
jsp. . . . .ah ha! gotta keep seeing things *in their context* - and thus better understand the things themselves, perhaps?
Elissa. . . . .yes! and focus on the greater good
RevRandy. . . . .Let me be concrete on this ... using an example from my life
RevRandy. . . . .yes - as I preach, an audience of one can be very powerful . but ...
RevRandy. . . . .if I speak to a multitude but wander all over the place, what's the point
RevRandy. . . . .and if I focus so much that some who could benefit from my message are not in the audience
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Sharon. . . . .mercy!
Elissa. . . . .there's a concrete example
Elissa. . . . .how do we respond to that?
Sharon. . . . .don't sweat the small stuff.......it's all small stuff
Elissa. . . . .not all, shar, but when we can recognize that we have a choice about what we energize then we know how to let things like that go
RevRandy. . . . .ignore. move on . why energize it
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RevRandy. . . . .so, what else do you see in this
jsp. . . . .there's something of a letting go of self in this...
jsp. . . . .and a lack of fear
RevRandy. . . . .yes - and at the same time knowing and being oneself so thoroughly that one can let go
jsp. . . . .yes
jsp. . . . .that's why the lack of fear - for sure
RevRandy. . . . .yep - fearful people hang on
RevRandy. . . . .let's see what our speaker goes on to say:
Elissa. . . . .wait
RevRandy. . . . .wait? where? how long?
RevRandy. . . . .for Godot?
jsp. . . . .LOL!
Elissa. . . . .“I will try to picture what can be, not what I need and/or want.”
RevRandy. . . . .go for it E
Elissa. . . . .that's a line that i find so thought-provoking... anyone else?
jsp. . . . .that's the one I found the letting go of fears for self in....
RevRandy. . . . .looking beyond self
kath. . . . .that is free
Elissa. . . . .we are usually so focused on our own wants and needs that we lose sight of possibilities...
kath. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .letting go of that focus can open us to all the possibilities that are always contained in every experience
Elissa. . . . .what a wondrous thought!
RevRandy. . . . .we build little fences (and some big walls) out of wants and needs
RevRandy. . . . .thinking we have corralled what we need only to find we have fenced out possibility
Elissa. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .not even seeing the possibility when we are focused on our needs/wants
Sharross. . . . .not getting stuck in the sadness of what is no longer- but rejoicing in the "new" and finding peace with it
jsp. . . . .beautiful thought sharross
Elissa. . . . .yes sharr
RevRandy. . . . .yep sharr
kath. . . . .like when our friend (christmas present) spoke "I will drink what is here for my soul"
jsp. . . . .yes kath!
kath. . . . .that is being present
Elissa. . . . .yes kath
kath. . . . .first he said i will cry and drink what is here for my soul
kath. . . . .acknowledging the moment
kath. . . . .and open to what is
Elissa. . . . .and jsp, freedom from fear comes with that process, i believe
jsp. . . . .very powerful, that
jsp. . . . .it can
kath. . . . .the moment is already past
RevRandy. . . . .wait - here comes another one .... opps, it's past now too
jsp. . . . .i think there's a bit of trusting that process - coming to trust it that is when the fear goes
kath. . . . .and jsp, is it grace that brings us to that trust process
Elissa. . . . .yes
Elissa. . . . .trust and letting go of fear must go together
RevRandy. . . . .sort of chicken and egg - which comes first .... or they arrive together, in a gracious moment
jsp. . . . .yup -
Gus. . . . .we must get beyond our expectations
Elissa. . . . .o yes gus!
Elissa. . . . .that's a big one
RevRandy. . . . .so, moving on --- to the speaker's final thoughts:
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RevRandy. . . . . 0,6"So make this your holiday wish. Not, ‘Next year in Jerusalem' or Mecca or
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6Brooklyn, but next time beyond. And to do that you have to be willing to let
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6go of all you treasure and try to keep. Remember, you move on only when you
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6let go of the past, so to speak.
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6Reunions with those of the past will pale
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6when you connect to the future--and when you can do that with gratitude, not
RevRandy. . . . . 0,6sorrow. And so I move on."
RevRandy. . . . .*
kath. . . . .oh boy
Elissa. . . . .tears
jsp. . . . .brings us back to GW there
jsp. . . . .and the embers
RevRandy. . . . .it is all one --- different facets again
Elissa. . . . .it's all connected :)
tuki. . . . .gratitude not sorrow...that's a hard one
Elissa. . . . .yes it is tuki
jsp. . . . .it's not an either/or thing though tuki
Gus. . . . .we move beyond our expectations and open ourselves to the infinite
Elissa. . . . .it's a process, and we'll never get it "perfect"
Elissa. . . . .focusing on gratitude can begin to lead us there... that doesn't mean we won't still feel sorrow
RevRandy. . . . .if we are on a journey, then parts of us can be different points along that path
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RevRandy. . . . .it is not about perfecting the state, but about being in process
kath. . . . .let go of all you treasure and try to keep. i was speaking of this today. the treasures are all so new and wonderful i want to horde them.....ah but i also want to let go...tension!
kath. . . . .i need a care package "grace"
kath. . . . .to embrace the present
Gus. . . . .and welcome the future
Elissa. . . . .gus :)
RevRandy. . . . .honor much as if it were gold, but know that nothing is so valuable you need to treat it like a horde of gold
Elissa. . . . .it's hard to let go of what we treasure... but i believe it becomes possible when we understand that nothing we treasure is separate from who we are
RevRandy. . . . .in fact, that which we try to treat as a horde is more separate from us
kath. . . . .yes that is presence, no thing we treasure is separate from who we are only mirrors
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jsp. . . . .funny thing bout it though, when gratitude grows, the sorrows, the fears do tend to dissolve away in the growing love and appreciation for all that is... sorrow involves lots of fear and love always displaces fear
jsp. . . . .remember the speaker who was surprised at how much he kept?...
kath. . . . .yes, it is truly an "inside job"
Gus. . . . .good pun
Elissa. . . . .yes jsp, sorrow involves the fear that there will never be enough... never be what we need once we have lost what is precious to us
kath. . . . .yes Elissa
jsp. . . . .so the gift is not the "thing" itself, so much as the love it brings
jsp. . . . .the love that came with it
jsp. . . . .and that's the part we get to keep, perhaps?
jsp. . . . .that's the part that won't submit to being horded
Elissa. . . . .the gift is the interaction between it and us, and what we keep is the way it adds to who we are
Elissa. . . . .that is all we ever can keep
kath. . . . .it is hard to let go of the piece of paper she wrote on, the gum wrapper found in her purse, but that is not where her love lives, they are only reminders
Gus. . . . .do I really know what love is?
RevRandy. . . . .yes - kath - reminders of what can never be lost
jsp. . . . .don't force yourself to give it away kath - hold on to those things as long as yo need to!
kath. . . . .yes, precious more precious than gold
Elissa. . . . .i know about that kath
RevRandy. . . . .they will leave when the no longer hold their appeal
jsp. . . . .yet one day, someday, there may come a time when you find you can let them go - but only you will know and it does come from the inside :)
jsp. . . . .will leave when they become just paper - and not a connection
Elissa. . . . .yes, and they will slowly lose their meaning and that's when you can let them go
Elissa. . . . .right jsp
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1Rikkity: "So there they are. [Who is the last one?] A friend, WK, soon to be
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1something else. I know not what. You have been visited by Christmas past,
RevRandy. . . . . 0,1present, and future. Learn and remember. That's my gift to you."
jsp. . . . .neat!
jsp. . . . .nice gift
RevRandy. . . . .the best!
Elissa. . . . .thank you, rikkity :)
kath. . . . .thankyou rikkity and thankyou friends of rikkity
RevRandy. . . . .and that's our formal sharing for tonight - the floor is open - go wherever you want in questions, statements, ponderings, playfulness, etc
Gus. . . . .as time heals the wounds we realize the material connections mean little
Gus. . . . .its the spiritual connections
jsp. . . . .I've always loved The Christmas Carol -- try to catch all the various versions of it playing through the season :)
Elissa. . . . .now we have our own, jsp :)
jsp. . . . .you bet
jsp. . . . .Scrooge finally got the bit about focusing on what's possible and not on his own needs/wants
Elissa. . . . .this discussion has been so meaningful for me! your insights are wonderful!
Elissa. . . . .o yes, jsp, i didn't even make that connection before
RevRandy. . . . .the sharing of the three was just the start of the story
jsp. . . . .more RevR - more!
Elissa. . . . .lol greedy
RevRandy. . . . .you bring the rest with each of you
RevRandy. . . . .we will all write the further chapters in our lives, in our deaths, in our love
jsp. . . . .ah - ok!
Elissa. . . . .i'll be back in a few minutes... never did get to take that break
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Gus. . . . .as we touch the lives around us we leave impressions; let them be of love
RevRandy. . . . .amen gus -
jsp. . . . .so true gus
kath. . . . .chapter two, "kath cleans her closet"
RevRandy. . . . .or kath notices, one day, that the closet is not as full as she remembers it, but her heart is
jsp. . . . .you know - it occurs to me that sometimes staying in the sorrow is lots like the bits of paper we talked about with kath -- sometimes we need to do that until we don't need it anymore - that's an inside job too
kath. . . . .:)
jsp. . . . .things do get to be kinda sticky.... i was cleaning closets too today
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RevRandy. . . . .and we need to be able to see that there is a difference between taking our sorrow at our own pace, and being stuck in it
RevRandy. . . . .hey Jackie
Jackie. . . . .Hi everyone, hope you had a good holiday
jsp. . . . .some things aren't as sticky as they were last year and they're now on the curb for UCP to pick up tomorrow... other things got put back
kath. . . . .yep that is my goal jsp
kath. . . . .we have lived in this home for over twenty years, i really have to clean out closets
jsp. . . . .honor the cues you get from inside as you do it kath :)
RevRandy. . . . .but you know that those closets contain the same power even with objects from the living .... those kids toys are hard to part with
kath. . . . .they are Rev. i did not go up in the attic this year
Gus. . . . .in the grieving process it is easy to get stuck.
Gus. . . . .it is hard to know when to go on
RevRandy. . . . .it is very easy to get stuck -- but one simple way to avoid that, I think, is to connect to others - like being here
Gus. . . . .amen Rev
kath. . . . .yes Rev, this works for me, connecting here
kath. . . . .i took the easy way and bought a new christmas tree and the trimmings
jsp. . . . .good plan kath
RevRandy. . . . .we did that, kath, the first year down here - after Rikkity died
RevRandy. . . . .kept just a few ornaments from before - all else was new
kath. . . . .it was a decision to go on
jsp. . . . .that's the key
RevRandy. . . . .the old ones held too much and too little meaning that year - both at the same time
kath. . . . .yes
kath. . . . .and the new tree is brave symbol
kath. . . . .embracing life
jsp. . . . .beautiful
RevRandy. . . . .indeed - evergreen too -
kath. . . . .yep and lights already hooked up to it, :)
Gus. . . . .many things must change in order for us to go on
RevRandy. . . . .and many of them will change even if we do not go on ... and we get left behind
jsp. . . . .right
Gus. . . . .yup Rev
jsp. . . . .i've come to look at change as being a matter of pain management....
kath. . . . .lol
Gus. . . . .things continually change ?is are we willing to change with them
RevRandy. . . . .wouldn't it be a shame if we, in our grief over a death, discovered later that we had missed life too
kath. . . . .yes Rev
kath. . . . .i was thinking that
kath. . . . .i want to live my life
Gus. . . . .I nearly missed life
jsp. . . . .((((gus))))
RevRandy. . . . .been there too gus ...
jsp. . . . .there comes a point where the pain of change becomes slightly less than the pain of staying the same... then it becomes easy to shift focus
RevRandy. . . . .change is the only constant
jsp. . . . .right
kath. . . . .why do we fight it, change
kath. . . . .that seems a constant also
jsp. . . . .there's that decision again, as kath noted
kath. . . . .we know change is....constant what is that about the fight to stop change, silly huh
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jsp. . . . .human perhaps
Gus. . . . .I made a decision to go on with the living that is where my responsibility lies
jsp. . . . .(((gus))))
RevRandy. . . . .yep - we make a decision, or it grabs us
kath. . . . .yes Gus, a response to life
Gus. . . . .I nearly died by my own hand first tho
jsp. . . . .sometimes it takes that
RevRandy. . . . .but you chose life
Gus. . . . .It got tricky the balance was nearly gone
jsp. . . . .had to fight your way back then, eh?
Gus. . . . .OOOOOOh yes
jsp. . . . .that took commitment
jsp. . . . .bravo gus
Elissa. . . . .((((((gus))))))
Elissa. . . . .change can be scary because we don't know that we will gain enough afterwards
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Elissa. . . . .hi toto
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Gus. . . . .the foot prints poem is true; I was carried but didn't realize it at the time
kath. . . . .((((Gus)))))
jsp. . . . .how marvelous!
kath. . . . .grace
RevRandy. . . . .we all, I think, rely on the kindness of strangers and the universe, more often than we realise
Gus. . . . .being the only person in the universe would be a meaningless existence
RevRandy. . . . .it would indeed
Elissa. . . . .we are all loved always... we just don't always open ourselves to that feeling
jsp. . . . .....could that be the distracted by other things in part, elissa???
jsp. . . . .distracted by other business????
Elissa. . . . .distracted by our needs and wants, and afraid there won't be enough for us or that we won't be enough
RevRandy. . . . .again, not being open and not focusing at the same time
jsp. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .I will look for the largest and widest view of all things. I will scan
jsp. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .the horizon for new horizons. I will try to see a greater, not a lesser good.
jsp. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .I will try to picture what can be, not what I need and/or want. And,
jsp. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .if enough join me, then we will all advance. But the sad news is that when
jsp. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .we have learned to do this we will be dealing with other issues elsewhere.
jsp. . . . .RevRandy. . . . .hmmm .... dealing with other issues elsewhere
Elissa. . . . .the kingdom of heaven is within us but it will not be on earth... striving for perfection is a dead end
jsp. . . . .wow - it worked :)
RevRandy. . . . .ah - the concept that when we get this place all figured out, we spiritually move on to another complexity, with its own issues
Elissa. . . . .bravo jsp!!!
jsp. . . . .now - what you just said.....
jsp. . . . .Elissa. . . . .we are all loved always... we just don't always open ourselves to that feeling
jsp. . . . .put them all together and you get......
RevRandy. . . . .Slinky - the magic toy?
jsp. . . . .[drum roll...]
jsp. . . . .LOL!
kath. . . . .a midi
jsp. . . . .DOUBLE LOL!
* Elissa waiting impatiently
jsp. . . . .i'm thinking you pegged it elissa
* Elissa anticipating profundity :)
Gus. . . . .LOL
* Elissa is accepting kudos from the crowd now :)
RevRandy. . . . .CLAP CLAP
kath. . . . .oh boy
RevRandy. . . . .what have we done now
Elissa. . . . .thankyouverymuch
kath. . . . .i missed the midi
Elissa. . . . .lol kath
Gus. . . . .KUDOS KUDOS
RevRandy. . . . .and while the kudos are being passed out (and enjoyed) the Rev is going to take his leave .... it is 11 and he has miles to go before he sleeps
kath. . . . .five miles Rev
Elissa. . . . .da preacher dude!
jsp. . . . .thanks for the marvelous evening Rev
jsp. . . . .safe trip
RevRandy. . . . .best to all -
RevRandy. . . . .and next week join us when you will see me write:
RevRandy. . . . .see, Y2K was no big
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kath. . . . .lol
jsp. . . . .now is this before or after Bullwinkle and Rocky?
Elissa. . . . .hahaha
kath. . . . .was he going to play a midi?
Elissa. . . . .he can't play them lol
Jackie. . . . .night all
Elissa. . . . .shall i give it another shot?
kath. . . . .Elissa YES
kath. . . . .but come back
Elissa. . . . .lol ok hang on folks
Gus. . . . .I too must go thank you for allowing me to join in the wonderful discussion
jsp. . . . .glad you could be here gus!
kath. . . . .nite Gus, it was a pleasure being with u
Elissa. . . . .thanks for being here tonight gus
Gus. . . . .nite all
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Elissa. . . . . 10,0!Elissa holy.mid 0,10 :o)
Elissa. . . . .i did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jsp. . . . .bravoo!!!
Elissa. . . . .it's a miracle!!!
jsp. . . . .suitable
jsp. . . . .i need to run too - much love to you all!
kath. . . . .nite ((((jsp)))))
kath. . . . .love ya
kath. . . . .nite Elissa LOL
kath. . . . .sending love and thank you for tonite
Elissa. . . . .nite dear kath.. am i leaving or are you?
Elissa. . . . .i'm going to try the rainbow song now
kath. . . . .i am going to say good nite, well i will wait
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Elissa. . . . . 1,8!Elissa rainbow.mid 8,1 :o)
Elissa. . . . .i enjoyed tonight so much
kath. . . . .me too
kath. . . . .nite nite
Elissa. . . . .nite sweetie! love you!
kath. . . . .say good nite irene
kath. . . . .love you too
Elissa. . . . .nite irene and merry christmas
kath. . . . .lol
kath. . . . .tell rev. love him too
Elissa. . . . .nite everyone who's left
Elissa. . . . .i will